The key question regarding the carriers is how many F-35s will we get?! Probably only have about 6 embark on a cruise. It will just be another very costly PR exercise, a token to show that we are with Washington, that we are strong, that we are important, that our leaders have real power.

Iraq PM Malaki gone, new PM sounds a bit more robust in dealing with ISIS.

I'd happily send a few dozen of these to the Iraqi Army

http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploa...amethrower.jpg

There must be a load of surplus A-10s sitting in desert storage these days..How about pulling them out and letting all those out of work Harrier mates have something to keep current on?

Ronald, when you say "our leaders", of whom are you talking?

Britains leaders are dropping out like flies.
 

Minister quits because £120,000 salary and expenses is not enough to support his family in London - Telegraph


This is the second UK Conservative Government Foreign Minister to resign in one week. Just when we need their brains, ability and leadership, Lincolnshire and the little squealers become more important.
Whose in charge in Britain now the PM's on the beach? Is it Clegg? He seems very absent also.

Ha ha, I was just thinking the exact same thing. In your past three posts Ronald you have said 'we/our' six times! Stop trying so hard, the gig was up a long time ago.

If the RAF are sending fast jets to the sand will the tankers go and the Falklands airbridge go out to tender again???????

Mole Man:ok:

Three left
 

Downsizer,

All is well. Of our 3 x GR4 Sqns; 31 have just stagged on for the last turn of the handle in Kandahar, IX (B) are just back and on leave, leaving shiny II as our deployable force element. Sorted. Best hurry up though as the sqn disbands in 7 months....

3 have left UK, more to follow if BBC are on the nail. No mention of tanker support yet but guess it has to happen.

BBC News - RAF Tornado jets leave UK for Iraq aid mission

had a bright thought listening to the gnus.

"why is not Switzerland [for example] "doing something about it". [Whatever "it" is].

Never mind the government being commitment-phobic, most of the country are commitment-phobic".

The RAF shopping list grows:

Britain considers sending Chinook helicopters to aid fleeing Yazidi refugees in Iraq as the public swings behind air strikes on rampaging Islamic State fighters | Mail Online

Based at Akkers - going to be some long sorties and 'interesting routing'. Hope Voyager is ready to go....

The video of the other aid being dropped by Helicopter,
I think an Iraqi one.

They said it came under fire and they showed video of the gunner firing his weapon,
does that mean the Chinooks are likely to be armed ?

Not really...any tanker pilot with some hours behind him will know it well from the days of Res North/Northern Watch.

Shame our C17s aren't cleared CDS airdrop - 40 at a time vs the C130's 16(?) might be quite useful.

What is discipline/control like on the ground?
Will any Rocks be deployed with the Wokkas?
If so, what ROE will they have?
All serious questions and all linked.

Edit
I just noticed a news flash that one of the Mi-17 helicopters crashed on take off
due to too many people climbed on board. Very sad.


I found the video I was referring to above.

This also shows the level of "discipline/control like on the ground?"

The kid holding onto the gun as the Helicopter takes off and
is pulled inside when they are airborne is at 1.35 onwards.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMgPaAUxwvU

I can't access that at the moment, but can only presume it's pretty chaotic, hence my supplementary questions.
I witnessed such chaotic scenes on several missions with 18 Sqn at the start of Haven.

Gerontocrat

I would say it is chaotic but anything out of normal military
methods I would say was chaotic.


Not sure about the gunner firing his MG and whether that was just for the camera to make good footage,
maybe someone with good experience can pass judgement on it.

Uncle G


I have the ultimate faith in the Brize crews - just hope the rest of the system is up to it. At least its relatively benign and a couple of handy divs in Turkey (Dipclrs permitting!) it should prove to be a good test.

Ex-Min Def in now defacto leader. Out of the flying pan . . .

Chickens and roost or petards hoisted spring to mind.

========

On aircraft on carriers, a former captain of Arc opinind that on the US model the new carriers should have 65 aircraft.

I rather suspect that the lower slopes of that mountain, where the IS scum are, would be very happy hunting grounds for both Apache and AC-130U 'Spooky II' aircraft, on NVG missions. I rather think that its time some grit was shown by taking the fight to these low lives, and give them some "run but can't hide" treatment. Meanwhile, the lads and lasses in theatre seem to be performing well. What else should we expect ? Ahh, political will!

Smudge:ok:

Totally agree Smudge. I think we're all sick of throwing lives away on piecemeal operations. Time for the governments of the world to commit to sorting this out once and for all.

No new Iraq war.
 

Humanitarian aid mission morphs into a limited support, longer term limited air war conflict?
The PM, and the UK Governments response to this has baffled me for days.




No new Iraq war, Cameron says - Telegraph


Cant believe the way politicians trot out these glib, sound-bite statements for the public such as boots on the ground.
He must not be receiving the correct sort of briefings. There must be quite a few such items of UK footwear on the said ground by now - would be disappointed in the UK military if there weren't.
I imagine by now, reading this, all sorts of RAF and others assets are working flat out on this complete 180 degree turn stratergy by the UK Government. Tornado aircraft, Rivet Joint (?), supply aircraft, helicopters, special forces, paratroopers, spies.......
We have effectively declared a war, if limited, upon the group ISIS.
They wont be so limited in their response to us, which is also what the PM appears to be saying.
In response from them, I expect more bloody carnage on the streets of the UK soon from this passport holding enemy who now live or dwell in high numbers within our lovely island. Why hasn't parliament been recalled for this. Where is our mandate to intervene? Should there be vote on the H of C upon it? What are the exact terms, limit of our support?
Can you have a limited conflict, or war? Do nations who embark upon them generally win these conflicts? Are we now in a sort of, hate to say it, like a limited conflict such as the UK endured against the IRA in the 1970's to the 1990's? Can American Air Power with limited UK support thwart ISIS? All of this needs to be carefully debated and thought through at the very highest level by the UK civ and mil leadership, but I just wonder about them all.

Hangar

"sound-bite statements for the public such as boots on the ground."

Yes, and then I read today that 120 more SF Troops are on the way
and soldiers from the York Regiment ? are already there.

Yep, No boots on the ground !

Tash:

Maybe the way to do it is either, let each side slaughter the other and end responding to the 'something must be done' lobby, or warn the big players behind the scene in the Arab and Persian world, either stop your support and funding or we turn your countries into glass.

We do not want anymore young people being repatriated through Brize Norton or worse on to be captured and tortured and beheaded on live television.

Time to stay out and let the locals sort it out themselves.

Of course, the major flaw in that plan is that ISIS is not a 'local' movement, but instead has declared its intent to found a global caliphate.

Sooner or later we will have to confront them, like it or not.

I wish our current Govt had the balls to direct the police to do some 'confronting' with the Oxford Street local ISIS movement that was trying to recruit fresh membership over the last few days.

How much longer can our British be nice to everyone policy stand up in the face of clear cut and unambiguous ISIS recruiting drives going on in the centre of London?

IS needs to get past Israel before they take on world domination. Good luck with that one.

"Sooner or later we will have to confront them, like it or not."
We will have to? why is that then? I can think of a handful of large, rich and capable countries in the region/neighbouring Iraq itself that can and should be leading this fight.
Saudi Arabia, principally should be leading the middle east to put down this uprising.
We, don't need to do anything!:mad:

Jay

Agree re other states, inc SA.

What has happened to his sidekick? He used to roll out Nick Clegg for all the political hot potatoes while hiding in the background.
I've also noticed of late he blurts out stuff for No 10 to correct it and say "what he actually meant was"
He did similar rattling off some huge investment when his figures actually included that which was previously budgeted.

Saudi et al are part of the problem, not the solution. Where do you think the extreme ideology and the funding come from?

Some more moderate regional countries, like Jordan, are being bolstered by the West but time will tell what effect that has on slowing ISIS.

As for Israel, no doubt they will be drawn in at some point (of ISIS's choosing), but there are land routes from Syria/Iraq into Europe and (almost) North Africa that completely bypass Israel.

Maybe we won't ever have to confront ISIS, but that sounds more like wishful thinking than anything else.

I think that is called suicide.

UK PM Cameron
 

Made some fairly strange sound-bite statements for the press this afternoon, he said it all seemed perfectly clear (in his little pink faced annoyed-voice way), and has now gone on another holiday (this time to Cornwall, so my commiserations with that one anyway). COBRA, a room wherein an unelected committee (which has had it amazingly wrong in the recent past and has been caught as flat footed as a tortoise on this one) sits, and apparently has it all in hand.
And so, in the month of August yet again, I fear we will head towards more loss of precious young UK lives, mark my words.
Dimwits all.


Hope you are wrong Melmoth, but you may be on the money.

So just to recap so far then.
 

Looking at UK Channel 4 news tonight the UK mil support for this is as follows. Tornado Aircraft (6)? Supporting Tanker Aircraft. I presume Hercules C130 still doing what they do. Other UK supply aircraft gathering weaponry and ammunition from around Europe for delivery to the Kurds. A Rivet Joint Aircraft and probably drone aircraft for surveillance and support over N Iraq. Undoubtedly UK SF (Boots on the ground, but they aren't) and probably much more than that in other units.(Yorkshire Regt got a mention).
All of this one can gleam by reading the various newspapers, I'm not looking for confirmation because I understand the OPSEC involved - but its quite a sizeable package really.
Many service people at risk - they should recall Parliament and have a national debate - this is a shameful drift and escalation.

Seems to me that the west seems to lurch from one short term action to another.

COBRA meets, decides on an action, micro manages the military instead of letting them get on with it, COBRA meets, decides on another action but scaled up, micro manages the military instead of letting them get on with it and so it goes on.

Hangershuffle:

And the duty spearhead battlegroup is preparing for deployment into Poland, talk about spreading forces thinly.