RAF Seletar - 1950s
 

I'm trying to put some meat on the bones of my grandfather's history, and wondered if anyone can add clarity to the history Wikipedia gives?

My grandfather was born in 1931, and joined the RAF in 1945 through national service. He stayed in the RAF until he retired as a Warrant Officer in 1971 after 26 years service. When he retired, he was a SWO and Chief Clerk, and I know he was always dealing with pay and expenses.


However, he tells us tales of flying in Sunderland flying boats from RAF Seletar and dropping bombs by hand on the rebels in the jungle!

Is this feasible? Did such things happen? Did Chief Clerks in their younger years even fly?

All help appreciated.

I was at RAF Seletar when they had Sunderlands but I was on the other side where we flew Chipmunks from the runway. I was seconded to the MAAF (Singapore Wing) as a ground engineer instructor.

It is entirely possible the Sunderland would have RAF Admin members fly with them and probably drop bombs in the jungle against the communist guerillas, but I think it would be an ad-hoc basis and well before my time there.

The Sunderland took off and landed on the patch of water between Singapore and Johor Baru, but were usually towed up a ramp for parking on land. There was also a float-station off Penang which used an army base as HQ.
Any engineer who worked on Sunderlands used to have his tools on a long string!!!

btw I doubt if your gramp started National Service when he was only 14...most that age, like myself joining RAF Halton at age 15, had to be a Boy Entrant or Apprentice.

Yes I knew someone that was at Seletar, sadly no longer with us, google RAF Seletar and select images, you will find lots on the Sunderlands there.

davita,

Check PMs.

Also until 1960 or thereabouts, lots of PSP and a couple of Beaufighters (for target towing) LFH

For details of Sunderland operations during the Malaya Emergency, see Malcolm Postgates 'Operation Firedog' - the official history of the air campaign. I don't have my copy to hand, but I don't recall reading of the Sunderlands being used offensively, but as ever, stand by to be corrected.

RAF Seletar
 

RAF Seletar, as many remember it, is long gone and is now known as Seletar Aerospace Park. Only two of the old hangars remain, the 'Beverly Hangar' and the 'Andover Hangar'. I understand that the original Station HQ is being kept as a historical building while the fate of the still-existing Main Gate is in doubt as a new dual-carriageway access is almost ready. Perhaps more relevant to this thread is the fact that the seaplane ramp is still there.

One man who would have been at Seletar when the OP's father was there was Mr Wee (and he was a small chap) one of the Officers' Mess stewards. Apparently when the mess was reopened after WW2, during which it had been commandeered by the Japanese, they assumed that all of the mess silver had been stolen and would have to be replaced from scratch.

Along comes Mr Wee with a couple of sacks - he had taken the silver away before the Japanese arrived and buried it! I think that guaranteed him a job for life, as he was still there in 1967, dispensing the gin and tonics with a perpetual smile!

Lion in the Sky
 

The above is a history of RAF Seletar published in 1968.


On Pg 139 the then CO of 209 Sqn in 1949, Peter de Le Cheminant refers to 20 pounders being dropped by hand. He also mentions this 'technique' in his autobiography. 'The Royal Air Force - a personal experience' - ACM Sir Peter Le Cheminant, Ian Allan 2001.

I was a Flight Engineer on one of the Sunderland squadrons until tour ex. in 1953.
Without going into details of the bombing tactics the basic idea was to bomb the selected area and drive the terrorists to the waiting troops.
The Light Series Carriers could only take a small number of bombs at any one drop. After the drop the carriers were brought inboard (electric motors) to be loaded again. To keep up the momentum while the carriers were reloaded other crew members would unpack more bombs, pull the pin and throw out the open bomb doors. On one sortie we had a cook from the Sergeants Mess throwing bombs out !


Aircraft were normally moored and only came out of the water for maintenance.

Indeed, my father on 209 squadron at that time tells of bombs bouncing back inside the aircraft during the rush to get them out of the hatch!

I was at Seletar in 1957 and had a trip in a 205/209 Sqn Sunderland on a "Firedog" bombing raid over the Malayan jungle. It was at night and I don't remember much about it apart from the bombs being loaded on moveable bomb rack rails with the bombs being "railed" out from the fuselage to underneath the wing and then released.

Sadly at that time Sunderlands were on their last legs and being broken up for scrap as seen below. The fuselage hatch though which the bombs were moved on to the wing is clearly visible under the wing.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...r/Image2-1.jpg

Christmas 1957 and some men got a bit "bolshie" and overturned this instructional airframe of a Harvard on the Seletar parade ground:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...tar/Image3.jpg

On a trip from Seletar to China Bay we overnighted at RAF Glugor (Penang) and this photo shows the aircraft being refuelled there:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...refuelling.jpg

Lovely panoramic windows:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...ughWindow2.jpg

The only photo of a Sunderland that I took in colour was this one that I took at Gan in 1958 as it was moored in the lagoon.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...landP-Copy.jpg

"There was also a float-station off Penang which used an army base as HQ."

Davita, the Sunderbusses used the old Imperial Airways refuelling stop at Glugor, on the east coast of Penang Island. AFAIK, at the time, it was always a small, self-contained RAF unit. Not aware of any Army involvement there. The Pongoes used Minden Barracks, just down the road. Glugor later became a marine craft unit until handover to the Marine branch of the Royal Malaysian Police in 1970.

Sadly, the only thing that remains on that site now is the old watch office/control tower. Everything else was recently demolished to make way for "re-development"!

As mentioned by others, bombs were indeed hand thrown from the aircraft during Firedog ops. The .50 cal machine guns were also used to "stir up" the bandits in the jungle.

Thanks lauriebe for the info...I'd forgotten what the names were but your post has recalled.
I had to stay at Minden once to help out at that RAF Unit. I was sent over from RAF Butterworth where I worked on transiting A/C (TASS).
I think we used the army barracks for accommodation but my memory is faded...I do remember a feature where we had Indian curries sent to the club by taxis...my first but not last intro to hot spicy food.

Lauriebe re. Glugor
 

Last March I was on a cruise ship that called in at Penang. I was determined to visit the jetty at Glugor that we used on our detachment to the armament practice range north of Penang. The last time I visited Penang was 1985 which made it difficult to give directions to the taxi driver. We found where the jetty used to be, now about half a mile inland ! It is called reclamation.





For a brief time in 1952 Aquila Airways flew some trooping/families charters through Penang between the UK and Singapore. One Solent on a tech stop from Seletar to China Bay was holed by the refuelling barge. Fortunately a patch held and it returned to Seletar where it went into the hangar for repairs. Years later the Captain of that Solent became the Operations Director of a major UK airline.

Krakatoa, The first part of that jetty disappeared under a six-lane highway that feeds traffic to/from the original Penang Bridge. BTW, there are now two bridges onto the island. The second, which was opened a couple of months ago, comes onto the island east of the airport at Batu Muang.

The outer portion of the jetty survived until around late-2006/early-2007 and was still in use albeit in a very dilapidated state. The historical images on Google Earth (GE) show that.

The beaching ramp survived until around 2010 but was then swallowed up by the reclamation work which is still ongoing. The latest GE photo of the area is only a few months old and shows the extent of that work so far.

Apologies to the OP for the thread creep.

Lauriebe
 

Many thanks

No need to apologies for the thread creep, it's all very interesting for me, thank you everyone who's contributed.

It sounds as though his tales of dropping bombs as a pay clerk were true, but perhaps more interesting are the photos people have posted and the name of the history book mentioned as well.


Thank you everyone, and please keep contributing your tales of Seletar.

My last reply didn't seem to make it, so apologies for the delay.

The information you've all shared on this thread has been priceless for not just my own family history, but for completing some of your memories as well by the sound of it.

Please keep posting and don't worry about thread creep on my behalf.

lobbing bombs out of Sunderlands at v low level
 

Afternoon all,
What an interesting thread!
My dad used to tell me the story of lobbing bombs at anything that moved as they overflew the jungle at low level in a Sunderland!!! He said he has no idea of how many monkeys/deer/ other wildlife he musy have wrought havoc on! :)

Dad was Ossie Sidney and was eng fitter with FEFBW at Seletar 53-56, and was scrounge rides as often as possible but said this was one of the few times he saw 'action' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers!

I was at RAF Seletar between 1956 - 1959 - my father was a Squadron Leader at the base.

Fond memories of being there.

A Peter Biggadike has a web site with some great pictures of the base and Singapore between 1957 - 1959.

If you type-in "RAF Seletar" from your search engine and look out for the site: users.waitrose.com

I lived in Singapore at Seletar from 1966 to 1970, as a teenager, before I joined the RAF. At that time we had 2 Whirlwind Sqns, 1 Belvedere, 1 Beverley, Twin and Single Pioneers, AAC Beavers and later Andovers. I belonged to No2 Overseas ATC squadron and flew in many of these types at Seletar and Changi. I attended Changi Grammar School.
Great times and happy memories.

Screwball,
On Amazon you can find a book called Seletar. It is a very comprehensive history of the base and of the RAF in the Far-East.

Thread reboot...

I was the original poster who started this thread. My grandfather passed away recently and I've had the opportunity to review his case of RAF paperwork - and what hidden insights it provides.

Earlier posters were correct - he enlisted at RAF Cardington in January 1949. His pay book suggests he was on HMT Eastern Prince for a month travelling from RAF Hereford to Koggala, before moving to Seletar in December 1949. In December 1950, he was transferred to Iwakuni where he was in the Far East Flying Boat Wing - before popping to London to line the Coronation Route and then returning to RAF Seletar the next month.

I have dozens of photos of Seletar and Iwakuni, although I doubt they offer any new insights given the existing high quality archives.

The sad part of my history trail is that the detailed paperwork dries up in August 1953 when he went to NCO training school at RAF Hereford. All I really know is that he was a Chief Tech in 1966 and was promoted to WO in January 1971 before leaving in 1975.

A couple of questions:

Why did the accounts and pay clerk trade have a Chief Tech rank?

Any ideas how and why he may have received an "Air Officer Commanding in Chief Costal Command Commendation"?

Once again, thank you for the insights into my grandfather's early years.

He was a Chief Tech because of the 1946 Trade Structure, which introduced, inter alia, the dreadful aircrew ranks of IV, III, II, I plus a P, N, G to denote trade.
The structure also split ground staff into two groups: a technical bunch and a admin/general service bunch - the techs were J/T, Cpl Tech, Senior Tech, Chief Tech and Master Tech.

In 1951, it was changed again (mainly for aircrew) but people in the ground trades did not revert to the original rank styles until 1964 when it all changed again, so I went from Aircraftman 2nd Class to acting pilot officer overnight (pay didn't change much though!)

Old Duffer

I remember the bonkers fiddling with the rank structure. I went from Cpl Tech to Cpl when it all changed again. The visible difference was that the 'Tech' trades wore their 'stripes' upside down. When I was commissioned I had to hand in my airman's greatcoat. There was much confusion and mirth in stores as it still had the Cpl tech tapes on it.

One of my embarrassments was the 1964 pay structure. I hadn't paid much attention to it when it was published and one day in 1964 this smart young chap was walking around the squadron and on his arm was a four bladed propellor. The only experience I had had with four bladed propellors was with the Air Training Corps so I congratulated him on his smart new ATC rig.
The somebody told me he was a Junior Technician.

You can get his records to fill in some of the later missing blanks

https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records

Fareastdriver,
my recollection is at odds with yours as even when the rank badges changed the J/T still retained the single inverted stripe and this was not changed to the four blade prop till later. Although this is thread drift can any clear up these differing recollections ?

Didn't the change to four-bladed prop take place when stripes reverted to normal orientation? In early '67 whilst at Seletar I was lucky enough to be able to take (and pass) a Direct Fitters Board thus making the jump from SAC AMechA to J/T ATechA but for the life of me cannot remember whether I then sewed on a stripe or a prop badge. Hmm, on reflection that may be partly because any actual sewing would have likely been carried out by one of the tailors in Jalan Kayu (sp?) village.

ancientaviator62. It may well have been later. I remember that he was in blues and I went overseas in 1965 and did not return until 1967.

From Wiki for what it's worth.

Fareastdriver,
I think you are correct. But I have spoken to a pal who passed out from his fitter's course just after the change and he is adamant that he wore the single upside down stripe !
I think the answer may be that many of these 'wunder schemes' are introduced before the correct kit is available and thus many continue with the old. He tells me that some wore the upside down stripe for a long time until they were ordered to change..We always regarded it as a sign of our superiority in the ground trades !

My dear chap, you are not looking at it through RAF Eyes... The RAF having spent a considerable sum of pennies to have their uniforms altered pre course completion were hardly likely to have the tailor then unpick and discard the old badges and replace them again for another amount of pennies and waste a perfectly acceptable unused badge, so they decided to return the uniforms with the new old badges fitted and then replace them at a later date down the line after having got some use out of them...

When at Swinditz we were issued with the new No2 and Thunderbird Jackets, at Saints on my course the WRAF members that turned up had been issued with Hairy Mary's, both were issued at the same time, but obviously the WRAF still had the old uniforms to issue, so did..

NutLoose,
about sums it up !

Gaius Petronius..AD69.,or thereabouts....allegedly..!!

Ref post 29. Does this link help?

https://www.rafweb.org/Ranks-Uniform/Ranks6A.htm

Thread drift – I was at Seletar 69-71. That was during the year when the Military pay review gave the Forces a decent pay rise. It was so large that our betters thought us Singlies would p*** it all up against a wall, so the increase for us would be spread over two years. Scalies would get the full amount immediately. Us Singlies were a little bit miffed so we had to commiserate together in the Malcolm Club over the odd pint or two of Tiger.