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-   -   RAAF CAF slams 'his' Air Force! (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/540865-raaf-caf-slams-his-air-force.html)

SpazSinbad 9th Jun 2014 03:51

Long article best read at source particularly for 'who will fly them potential Oz F-35Bs from Oz LHDs':

Thoughts on the LHD and a fixed wing capability
30 May 2014 Commander David Hobbs, MBE, RN (Rtd)

"TO THE the logical mind, the most surprising element of the 2007 decision to build two Canberra class LHDs was the acceptance by the Australian Government of advice from a lobby group that fighter aircraft based in Australia, with their limited radius of action and fixed supply chains, could provide support for these ships and their ‘all-arms’ battle groups wherever they might be deployed.

The Government had already stated its intention to procure the land-based F-35A Lightning II joint strike fighter but showed no interest in the STOVL F-35B variant (pictured) being developed specifically for amphibious operations with the US Marine Corps. Protagonists of the limited ability of ‘land-locked’ air forces to project power pointed to the availability of air-to-air refuelling to extend the range of fighters but there has, as yet, been no break-through that allows them to be re-armed in flight, and crew fatigue on long sorties must be a significant factor that degrades performance.
In 2008 the Sea Power Centre studied the relative value of shore and sea-borne aircraft and noted the observed historical fact that terminal air bases associated with distant crises are seldom secured beforehand and usually lack the capability to provide immediate support at the level of operations needed for crisis response. The same document notes, on the other hand, that embarked aircraft are fully mobile, operational to their maximum level of performance on arrival in the crisis area and largely secure from ground-based interruptions and asymmetric attacks....

...The best example of rapid and effective reaction to an unexpected crisis is the Falklands conflict of 1982. Possession of the two flat-tops, Hermes and Invincible, allowed the Royal Navy to deploy a task force with naval Sea Harriers and helicopters that were able to fight on, under and over the sea surface. RAF Harriers were subsequently able to join Hermes’ air group but it needs to be pointed out that the ship’s highly skilled aircraft handlers were able to cope with their lack of experience and naval pilots were able to teach them how to operate in a maritime environment. In other words the RAF squadron was not in its primary environment and a force that relied on it for both offence and defence would have been weaker and less effective without the naval professionals who specialised in embarked flying.

A ship that was not as worked up and specialised could not have coped with the new-comers’ inexperience and the example of Illustrious in 2007 is interesting . With no Harrier squadron of her own she embarked 16 AV-8Bs of USMC squadron VMA-542 which flew 152 sorties in twelve hours. In contrast an RAF Harrier squadron embarked in Ark Royal in similar circumstances in 2010 had to carry out several days deck landing training before being considered operational and, in the ensuing exercise, flew less sorties in five days than the USMC had flown in Illustrious in two. Unlike the Marines the RAF were not able to fly at night because of their lack of carrier experience. A land-based unit that undertakes random embarkations as a secondary function will never demonstrate full operational proficiency.

Future conflict in the Pacific region may well rely on control of the sea and that control may not be possible for navies that lack effective aircraft able to operate as an integral part of a triphibious task force. An increasing number of navies have carriers and LHD-type ‘flat-tops’ and Prime Minister Tony Abbot’s May 2014 instruction to planners working on the next Defence White Paper that they are to examine the possibility of putting a squadron of 12 F-35B Lightning II joint strike fighters onto the LHDs to “ensure that Australia maintains a sustainable, versatile and highly capable defence force” shows a ray of hope that the full potential of these ships might be realised. Fortunately their design originated from the Spanish Juan Carlos 1 which was intended to operate STOVL fighters as well as helicopters and even retains the ‘ski-jump’ (it cost less to leave it in place than to redesign the bow to remove it) but significant modifications would be needed to embark F-35Bs on a regular basis. These would include the fitting out of air weapons magazines and handling systems together with the autonomous logistic information system, ALIS, which is at the heart of F-35 operation and maintenance and other arrangements. Aircraft handlers would need training in the operation of both fixed and rotary wing aircraft on deck and sortie generation would require the installation of briefing and flight planning facilities, simulators for pilots to ‘pre-fly’ missions and maintain training standards...."
Thoughts on the LHD and a fixed wing capability | Australian Naval Institute

500N 9th Jun 2014 04:11

and crew fatigue on long sorties must be a significant factor that degrades performance.


How come on a few occasions - Falklands, Libya - pilots can fly very long range missions - but they now say it is a problem ?

SpazSinbad 9th Jun 2014 04:41

Bomber pilots OR Fighter Pilots? Reports suggest some pilots in the recent past have been on prescribed amphetamines (and have made mistakes due to the effects of these drugs perhaps). But anyway here goes an oldie but a goldie for the RAAF Crab on LHD thingo.

A SELF RELIANT DEFENCE FORCE Submitted to the [Australian] Defence [Force] White Paper Team
28 July 2008 John Bird

"Paul Dibb (The Dibb Report June 1986) emphasised that as far as is possible, we should ensure that Australia's equipment purchases are 'Force Multipliers' by which he meant that as far as possible, defence equipment should serve, in addition to its primary purpose, to support other areas of defence and so maximise its utility. We are presently on the brink of acquiring a number of equipment items that could form the basis of the best 'force multiplier' that the ADF has ever possessed, but sadly it would appear that government is unlikely to see the need to properly equip two of the platforms presently in the pipeline....

...Objections have been raised in various quarters to the proposal to acquire a fixed wing integral air capability and it would be worthwhile identifying some of these and challenging them.

*Navy will be fully committed in handling all the equipment currently owned and in the pipeline, given the constraints of personnel available.
The proposal does not consider an increase in equipment for Navy. Air Force would bring its aircraft, spares, maintenance equipment and personnel aboard Navy platforms and if one has to consider detail, Air Force could contribute to victualling and any other incidental costs for which it would be responsible should the aircraft be in service elsewhere....

...*RAAF opposition has long been a barrier to the acquisition of a shipborne (integral) air capability. Having long ago lost its control of rotary wing flying, it wishes to retain control of fixed wing aircraft, no matter where they are operated.

This proposal supports that aim and supports the one service control of the F35 and all its support facilities. It requires only that the aircraft is made available to the navy when required, to provide the support with which the air force has long been tasked. The essential difference this time is that would be a credible, an achievable support.

There is still an urgent need to develop a defence force that is, to the extent that is economically feasible, self reliant, and a fleet without integral fixed wing air support cannot, in this day and age be considered to be self reliant. The force requires to be able to respond to situations which may develop in and around our island home and in our neighbourhood, embracing at least New Zealand and our island dependencies. We must also be able to a reasonable extent, to protect our sea lines of communication, the loss of which would deny the nation the ability to resist an aggressor for more than a very limited period of time, given the crippling effects on our economy that would be suffered. Our 'Neighbourhood' should additionally encompass Papua New Guinea and our neighbour allies in the island chains to our north and in near Southeast Asia. A self reliant fleet is an essential element of any force charged with these tasks...."
http://www.defence.gov.au/Whitepaper.../Bird_John.pdf (0.27Mb)

TBM-Legend 10th Jun 2014 02:07

Cross-decking with USMC F-35B's given our relationship with them now is a plus for these ships and therefore the ability to carry our own jets is a positive for all of the ADF and our coalition partners.

HMAS Melbourne, as small as she was, was able to perform numerous fleet roles quite well. In the end old age [Cat issues etc] and "rust" caught up with her when defence spending was heading south. HMS Invincible was informally offered to Australia in late 1980 as a number of us were warned out to possibly go to the UK for training when a "deal" was done. Obviously other events overtook this...

dat581 10th Jun 2014 06:08

Thinking of coming out of retirement if 805 Squadron stands up again Spaz?:E

SpazSinbad 10th Jun 2014 07:27

Yeah - now I know why the OzGubmnt plans to up the retirement age from 65. I'll have to step up in the weight class though. Augmented eyesight probably works a treat with the HMDS III. Always dreamt of going flying in me jammies and slippers - and home before teatime - no G - BVR baby - no tears. :}

SpazSinbad 13th Jun 2014 16:51

Some more AM Browne - Dr. Jensen argybargy from Fri 6th June 2014 Senate Committee Hearing on F-35 (in part). 10 pages from the main PDF at Guvmnt website:

http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/...b353dc/0000%22 (0.7Mb)

F-35 Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade_2014_06_06_2560.pdf

http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=19060 (10 pages 0.3Mb PDF)

SpazSinbad 20th Jun 2014 00:44

LHD and STOVL—An engineer’s view 20 June 2014
 
LHD and STOVL—An engineer’s view 20 Jun 2014 Steve George

"Steve George was an air engineer officer in the Royal Navy for 28 years, and served in HMS Invincible during the 1982 Falklands operation. During his career, he was closely involved with the Sea Harrier, and also with joint RN/RAF Harrier operations. Retiring from the RN as a Commander, he joined the JSF programme to work on F-35B ship suitability. He is now an engineering consultant."

LHD and STOVL?An engineer?s view | The Strategist

snorker 22nd Jun 2014 16:21

Steve George, eh? A clever chap that one. His article constitutes the total sum of intelligent analysis of what the Aussies need to think about, while debunking the astounding ignorance and arrogance of academics who've already enlightened us with their garbage. A great article.

SpazSinbad 23rd Jun 2014 05:51

These pages are the LHD & F-35B & Harrier excerpts from 22 June 2014 edition of ‘A Pictorial History of Royal Australian Navy Fleet Air Arm Skyhawk A-4G & all other FAA Aircraft...’; + ‘How to Deck Land VL & SRVL style’ with Harrier and F-35B examples.

FOLDER: '__LHD & F-35B Info VL + Harrier':
URL: https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=CBCD6...D6340707E6!298

File Name: LHDs & F-35Bs + Harriers Info ONLY 22 June 2014 Excerpts.PDF (270Mb)

URL: http://1drv.ms/1ioph3s

RIGHT MOUSE CLICK ON THE ICON or whatever file name seen as above and DOWNLOAD this file.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...w.gif~original

GreenKnight121 23rd Jun 2014 06:16

Primera toma de un MV-22 Osprey a bordo del buque ?Juan Carlos I? - Noticias de la Armada - Armada Española - Ministerio de Defensa - Gobierno de España

http://translate.google.com/translat...26channel%3Dsb

USMC MV-22 Ospreys aboard Juan Carlos I - with photos.


Looking good for USMC-RAN cross-deck operations.

OTR1 26th Jun 2014 20:30

There's a long, straight-bat introduction and overview of the news with tech and conceptual detail of all this in the current issue of Aust Aviation magazine.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...psda7e8b96.jpg

Not a bad article, not bad at all!

SpazSinbad 27th Jun 2014 05:02

Those inclined with iPads can go here:

https://itunes.apple.com/wa/app/aust...8686?ls=1&mt=8

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...Y.gif~original

BBadanov 27th Jun 2014 09:10

haha L. You think it will happen, and get you a job back on 805 ?

SpazSinbad 27th Jun 2014 09:57

Back in the 1970s it was VF-805 and at age 65+ what do you think.

BBadanov 27th Jun 2014 10:06

I was just down at my local bar and it is cold here, so wore my flying jacket. Good call, kept me warm, and it's the late US nomex green style before everyone went leather!

But I would not be seen dead in a red-and-white check one !!

SpazSinbad 27th Jun 2014 10:28

What are you talking about? Who has a red/white chequered flying jacket?

The closest I came to be LURID was wearing the standard shiny green jacket inside out to show the orange lining. Talk about LAFF! And the smell was horrendous.

SpazSinbad 27th Jun 2014 22:57

VF-805 Woven Cotton Badge Patch as worn on Flying Jacket along with the A-4 Skyhawk Patch plus a leather name tag with wings - embossed 'gold'.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...K.gif~original
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...m.gif~original

dat581 28th Jun 2014 01:00

So what would you prefer on your shiny new F-35 Spaz? Light gull gray with white under sides or the darker all over camo? I'm sure we could find a spot to store your slippers.

SpazSinbad 28th Jun 2014 02:20

I want a sheepskin seat cover just like the Kiwis had for the KAHUs. I want the invisible paint job.

SpazSinbad 27th Oct 2014 22:14

PROXIMITY MEANS CAPABILITY by Baddams (F-35Bs on LHDs)
 
2015 Defence White Paper Submission
PROXIMITY MEANS CAPABILITY Operating F-35Bs from the Canberra-class LHDs, Oct 2014 David Baddams

"EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
The submission argues that acquisition and operation of the F-35B aircraft from the Canberra-class Land Helicopter Docks (LHD) is affordable, feasible and desirable. Embarked air power would give the Government of Australia (GoA) and the Australian Defence Force (ADF) a significant and necessary increase in decisive air power to support deployed ADF forces and assist the prosecution of foreign policy objectives.

The submission describes the strategic and military considerations surrounding embarked air power. It addresses the technical and organisational issues involved and outlines a scenario where embarked air power would have a decisive impact in ADF operations.

Finally, it provides conclusions and recommendations for consideration by the Defence Review....

...The Author
David Baddams, 55, was a fighter pilot in the Royal Australian Navy from 1978 to 1984, and then the Royal Navy from 1984 to 1999. In the latter he commanded 800 Naval Air Squadron on multiple operational deployments, including strike fighter operations over Iraq from HMS Invincible in the North Arabian Gulf, and over Kosovo. In 2000 and 2001 he was the Hawk Production Flight Air Test Pilot for most of the RAAF's 33 Hawk lead-in fighter trainers. Since then he has been sales director for Britten-Norman, and in 2013 founded his own aviation support company, Snow Goose International. For SGI client BAE Systems he planned and piloted air support for Nuship Canberra in Port Phillip Bay during her final contractor's sea trials in August 2014. David was appointed MBE in 1998 for Leadership in Air Operations. He lives in Tamworth, New South Wales."
http://www.defence.gov.au/Whitepaper...82-Baddams.pdf (158Kb)

SpazSinbad 9th Nov 2014 01:25

Dave Baddams Gets a Guernsey on SLDinfo:


Australia and F-35Bs: Examining an Option for the Australian Defense Force 08 Nov 2014

"...In an input to the Defence White Paper process, David Baddams has had his paper on F-35Bs published on the Australian Ministry of Defence website...."

Australia and F-35Bs: Examining an Option for the Australian Defense Force | SLDInfo

dat581 9th Nov 2014 21:47

You just want to see an F-35 in a rap around scheme of Aircraft Grey and Light Admiralty Grey Spaz.

SpazSinbad 17th Nov 2014 01:53

ASPI Goes SPAZo on Oz F-35Bs - On Oz LHDs (wot about elsewhere then)
 
Jump jets for the ADF?
17 Nov 2014 Richard Brabin-Smith, Benjamin Schreer | Australian Strategic Policy Institute

"This report argues that the costs of Australia acquiring F-35B Joint Strike Fighter short take-off, vertical landing aircraft outweigh the potential benefits.

Overview
Is there a case for Australia to acquire F-35B Joint Strike Fighter short take-off, vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft to operate from the two new Canberra-class landing helicopter docks (LHDs)? The government has directed that this question be addressed in the development of the 2015 Defence White Paper.

This report is an independent assessment of the costs and potential benefits of such an acquisition. Reintroducing organic naval air power into the ADF would be a big strategic decision, and very complex and expensive, so it’s important to have a clear view of the circumstances in which it might be beneficial enough to be worth pursuing. And it’s important to be aware not only of the direct costs but also of the potential risks and opportunity costs. Overall, this report concludes that the benefits would be marginal at best, wouldn’t be commensurate with the costs and other consequences for the ADF, and would potentially divert funding and attention from more valuable force."
https://www.aspi.org.au/publications..._jump_jets.pdf (200Kb)

Jump jets for the ADF? | Australian Policy Online

SpazSinbad 25th Nov 2014 17:21

Bs on Ds
 
Another weigh in on the Bs on LHDs from a knowledgeable source. It is good to see some claims other than 'it can't be done' for XYZ reasons. The White Paper may reveal more about the 'ease of fitting Bs on LHDs'. I can happily accept that any special RAN Fixed Wing is dead with some salt water DNA injection into the crabs via Willytown exchanges. :-) It is sad to know that STOVL experienced former A4G personnel are not employed to help out with the White Paper (I'm not one of those of course). Perhaps that can be remedied easily. Binny knows about A4Gs.

F-35 strike fighters for the Canberra-class? 24 Nov 2014 David Baddams

"...Minor refits indeed. The never-ending claim that the Canberras are not F-35 capable is the bloviating of spectacularly ill-informed mugwumps. The Canberras are delivered with the same hardened fast-jet deck and underpinnings as the Spanish navy’s lead ship, and all essential internal aviation spaces for fast jets have been retained. All of them. This was intentional and a specific factor in the acquisition process. The much-maligned aviation fuel bunkers and weapons stowage spaces have near-identical capacity to the enormous ones in the Spanish ship. Senior personnel have been poorly briefed if they state otherwise.

The fast jet and helo aviation capabilities of the French Mistral and Italian Cavour class were closely examined at the time, and the Spanish design came up trumps in all respects. Right now, the known requirements at refit for F-35Bs are a precision landing light called a HIHAT – it looks like a long green crucifix and is attached the middle mast – some sensor enhancements and Thermion coating on the flight deck. Some existing kit might need to be moved from A to B for electro-magnetic reasons. The glide slope kit, known as GLIS, is already fitted to the Canberras. This is the stuff of minor refit, and no more.

Refit and F-35Bs would deliver a motza more capability. More choices. There is no “niche capability” about six or eight embarked F-35Bs, where sensor fusion and data networking go merrily berserk when four are in the same airspace. That picture of threat and strike solution available to both pilots, controllers and commanders will offer startlingly long reach that any enemy is highly unlikely to penetrate without huge loss. He who sees first and shoots first wins. The days of close-up dogfighting or chasing missiles are long over, and a bad guy sneaking through a “niche” 4-ship of ADF F-35Bs protecting an LHD force would face being seen and shot at before he knew he or his ammunition was a target.

It is no good for pontificating PhDs of think-tankery to praise and extol emerging threats and the peril they pose to the LHDs and then dismiss the essential counterpunch as a tiny and extravagant toy. Further, their doctoral eminences need to learn that of 100 ADF F-35s only 60 or so will ever be in line service. The rest will be in attrition reserve, maintenance, repair or required for development work. The mooted 28 F-35Bs would easily provide three for attrition reserve, three in deep maintenance, one hangar queen, two flights of six or eight for the Canberras and a flight for conversion, training and reinforcement.

There is nothing “niche” in the relative or actual of these numbers. They are the sorts of numbers that current and probable F-35B operators use. So long as the powers-that-be are committed to supporting this through the F-35B’s life-of-type then the ADF can do this in a doddle...."
F-35 strike fighters for the Canberra-class? | Australian Naval Institute


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