Parabellum
I agree. UK SF do it by themselves or with the us but not the African nations.

Look at the success of Sierra Leone and the recovery of the soldiers.
A textbook example of a recovery operation.

I also agree.

This is precisely the operation in which UK SF would excel. For those who think we are 'getting involved' its not an invasion and we are not and will not commit UK ground troops.

There are probably many other instances where UK SF get involved, this is just more in the public eye.

We may not be the worlds policeman, but we can still be a force for good.

So do you want to send them or not?? You say you want us to "be a force for good" but at the same time agree with parabellum who doesn't want us involved unless a string of conditions are complied with which are very unlikely to be met. There is almost zero chance of a fullUN resolution in time to be any help for these girls; the Nigerians (or any other nation) are simply not going to allow foreign military free reign in their country without some measure of involvement or control.

To be fair, these contradictions are representative of the very difficult situation we face, particularly when a request for help from the host state is tardy or non-existent.

This problem is too large and diffuse for UKSF at this stage. Nobody even knows where the girls are being held now. The best guess is that they are probably dispersed amongst many Boko Haram camps and caves in the Sambisa forest area in the mountains bordering Cameroun. I've flown over the area and it is huge (about four times the size of Wales) and dotted with tiny villages, hunter camps, caves. Some areas are fairly open and accessible, but other areas are thick jungle.

The only way to search it is with aerial reconnaissance. The Nigerian Air Force does have modern photo-reconnaissance assets (ATR42 with EO/IRs, B350 with vertical camera, DA42s with EO/IR) which would be suitable but they were mainly acquired so that corrupt officers could chop back-handers from the contracts. The NAF is far too feckless and lazy to actually use them and maintain them, and they would never be able to analyse and interpret the images anyway.

The rainy season is now underway, so satellite imagery may not be possible and aerial-reconaissance would have to be flown under cloud base which is typically 2000-3000ft agl. The other issue would be where to base aircraft. There is a NAF airforce base at Maiduguri, but it is completely insecure and you would not want to rely on the Nigerian Army to protect the base in the event of a Boko Haram attack (it has already been attacked a few months ago - several aircraft destroyed and many killed). Kano and Makurdi NAF bases are a bit too far. N'Djamena in Chad would be the best logistical choice, or Garoua in Cameroun would be closest - but the Nigerians will be reluctant to allow cross-border flights.

However, the biggest obstacle to any outside intervention will be feckless and venal attitude of Nigerian officials. They will object to any plan that will see them losing an opportunity to chop some money.

Shot,

obviously I should have made myself more clear.

I agree that our SF should go in, given their particular skill sets, and help to find these children.

I don't agree that this would constitute us 'getting involved and being the worlds policeman.'

I also don't agree with our involvement being conditional. Our SF either go in to help unconditionally or they don't go in at all

Again, yes.

As for a UN resolution, this isn't us declaring war, this is our SF going in to help another country with a particular problem. This has been done many may times before without any kind of UN resolution. Why would this necessitate a UN resolution???

Send them in....and let them do what they do best....put an instant end to nasty pieces of work....then back home for a bath and beer.:ok:

At least this time rescuing the young girls is reason enough for military action.

Normally they have to make up some obscure reason for it.

What were the lies/tales/fables told for Afghanistan and Iraq again???

I bet Mr Putin laughs his cock off every time little William Hague opens his mouth. :ok:

I hope the girls are rescued by those that do it best.

" I bet Mr Putin laughs his cock off every time little William Hague opens his mouth. :ok:"


Did you see the video of John Kerry the other day on the same subject ?

Latest from the intelligence agencies over here is that the girls are no longer in Nigeria. It's been over three weeks with no action, so I guess they could be anywhere. Going to be a problem finding them now.

Bob C

Wouldn't surprise me.

It's right on the border anyway and out there, anything goes.

The situation is a disgace and should be addressed and assisted by any right thinking nation, however why have we and the US decided that this is worth getting into, just being sceptical, is there oil or such like in the vacinity? and is it the £ signs shining in our leaders eyes with the companies that they are major share holders in could make for them if we get a foothold.

I know it sounds like something out a film such as 'the wild geese', but i really do wonder and as i say i really am sceptical these days in respect of our leadership.

The main reason i am perturbed by this situation is we made a promise to the Ukraine that if they gave up their nuclear weapons stock pile that ourselves and the US would back them up if they come under threat from anyone, bearing in mind this was a cast iron aggreement and what has happened, these same leaders didn't want to know and have just sat back and let it happen with the odd comments of outrage, all this has shown is our word around the world is worth nothing, perhaps that's it, if it was worth something they'd want their cut.

I must end this now before i get carried away. anyway being ex forces myself (RAF), if any of you lads and ladies do have to get involved then best of luck and best wishes get home safe.

If Thatcher was still in power the SAS would already have had them out, leaving behind plenty of reminders about trying to play with the big dogs. And then she'd sneer at any possible attempt at political ramifications.

No leadership anymore..

CJ - oil in Mali and Chad but its already spoken for - several western companies already operate there - not much in NE Nigeria IIRC

While we all want to see these girls safe, ought our forces be sent to help the tens of thousands under threat in other regions like South Sudan. If not, given the sentiments expressed here, why not?

Shot

you still haven' answered my question about why this necessitates a UN resolution. Probably because this situation doesn't require a UN resolution, which means you actually have no idea about actually goes on.

Never mind. When you actually have a clue about anything. please be sure to let us know.

Tens of thousands under threat, or hundreds actually kidnapped??!!

Shell Nigeria operate a fleet of Airbus Helicopters EC155B1 and Dornier 328 and Bristows Nigeria have a sizable operation.

Hempy has a point.....and its probably the same thing, the Israelis would do

I would think that, if our SF people can really offer a positive outcome in this scenario, then why not put them in play? Unfortunately I suspect that the current government are more interested in the "media" kudos than reality. Who announces that they are about to deploy SF troops? Totally counter productive, unless it's some sort of twisted political spin. Perhaps as a normal bloke, and ex service, my opportunity to see anything of even a small, let alone "the big" picture could blur my thinking, but like Danny42C I believe that it's yet another political whim we should not chase.

Smudge:ok:

Read my post again, Toadstool; I never asked for a UN resolution, it was parabellum who did so a couple of posts earlier. You agreed with him. All I did was point out such a resolution was unlikely.

"...Under threat or hundreds kidnapped", well, brutally murdered, since you ask!

Not sure why you've felt the need to lapse into abusive mode. This is the kind of situation which makes me glad I went into the Air Force and not politics. Yes I'm pleased we are doing what we can to rescue the girls. But I note you ignored my question about sending our military to other areas where terrible things are happening.

No one, you will hear about it afterwards, if successful it will be Dave, if unsuccessful then a junior minister.

These kids were kidnapped weeks ago.. No one gave a ****.. Quiet news week and its front page news .. Special forces this, Facebook that, twitter here and mumsnet there.. there is eff all we can do militarily or politically .. In the last few weeks there will have been hundreds of young girls in this country that need help from scumbags.. Perhaps we should concentrate our efforts there rather than chase the headlines in Africa.