18 Launches for me.

Arc

The 21 launches would be for a cadet with no previous reckonable flying experience.

My 22nd launch was my first solo - in a Kirby Cadet MkIII at RAF Spitalgate: May 1966.

Same for me 1.3V - almost exactly 3 years later :)

I had some previous Venture T2 time so most of the syllabus was about winch launch/launch failures and landings for me.

Arc

Actually - I have just checked in The Gliding Book and Alex Watson wrote a chapter on ATC gliding - he says - Cadets are not permitted to fly solo in under 20 launches unless they have previous power - flying experience.

So PJ88 was absolutely correct :)

He also says that in 1963 the Air Cadet gliding movement was responsible for training 2,043 Cadets to A+B badge and for that year the total number of launches was 136,345.

That book is great. Alex was a nice guy - I flew with him in the Mk3 at Kenley and later on at West Malling in the Vanguard (ASK21). I seem to remember he worked for the Sevenoaks Chronicle in some capacity................ I may be wrong on that though.

Alex's son is on here sometimes - Clive Watson ( a celebrated ATC Gliding Instructor in his own right. :-)

Arc

Mine was pretty much all done on one weekend. 10 launches on the Saturday. 18 launches on the Sunday (including 3 solos). Then the other 2 (to make up the 30) a couple of days later. By the Sunday night I didn't know if I was bored or countersunk!

no of launches for A&B/prof
 

The 'official' no of launches for those without a PPL was min of 19 launches plus 2 pre solo checks by another instructor.
That made 21 + 3 for the Proficiency badge and the BGA A&B cert. In fact there were no gliding badges then so Cadets were allowed to wear the BGA enamel 'two gulls' pin which was quite smart. If later one the managed some extended solo flights for the C then the '3 gull pin' could be worn.
What used to happen was the ab initio bit was sometimes added up incorrectly by the Cadet keeping the log and a quick couple of launches was required (after you had solo'd) to make it legal. This happened to me at SM. One had to be careful on the 'records' side if you had two 'Jones' or 'Smiths' on the same course.

I would imagine there are a few slight variations on the solo theme Pobjoy.
I have just had a wee look in my old log book and I have 17 dual,3 pre solo check rides and the 3 solos - so 20 + 3 for me.
It's funny I had misremembered it as 21 :)
When I restarted gliding in zimbabwe 1984 it took me 21 lchs to go solo - I would personally have been happy with about 5 ccts + 2 cable breaks :cool:

Back then did anyone really count? I don't recall checking before I sent any off.

Whether they did it in 20 or even 25 it's still a pretty amazing feat when one considers that their total flight time, at 3 mins per launch, would be little more than an hour.

I managed to get my G1 on Sedburghs (I didn't fit into the rear of a MkIII) and take a total of 10 cadets on AEG flights before converting on to Ventures.
I remember the first cadet (Cdt Willard) had never flown in anything before and was shaking so much you could feel it through the airframe. Part of my brief to him was "No need to be frightened, that's my job". We must have found a little lift as at 10 minute duration it was also the longest AEG flight I did in a Sedurgh as Captain.
My total time on 'conventionals' was 24 hours 29 minutes in 254 launches. Was that really nearly 38 years ago?

When I started gliding again in zimbabwe in 1984 there was much mirth in the gliding club bar when they saw my 300 odd launches with a TT of 25.00 hrs.
They were also confused by the P2 rating (why do you need a qualification to be a P2 ? a very reasonable question LOL) ,my P2 chit was still stuck into my logbook,my G1 chit had already fallen out.
Once I had learned how to thermal upwards my TT rapidly increased :)

System at the centres
 

The 'centres' had a fairly 'fixed' system based on the one week course, plus instructor continuity. In the case of SM they also had a near perfect location and lots of 'space' for c-breaks.
As I remember the cadets had 4-6 launches at a stretch and two slots a day, therefore it was the perfect 'learning' environment to bash the circuit.
At a w-end school the weather and 'attendance' plus instructor availability rather extended the situation and many launches were used to 'recover' what had been taught before.
Continuity is the real winner which is why the Easter and summer courses were so productive in solo numbers.
Looking back; Halesland could be quite challenging for a low time Cadet, and it says something about the quality of the whole organisation that this site was used, and provided genuine 'advanced' training so well.

I got my BGA 'C' Certificate/ Air Cadet Soaring certificate at Bovingdon in 1965 (one of our 613 GS detachments before 617 moved in from Hendon ) with a solo flight in Sedburgh XN150 lasting 18 min. I flew VX275 as P2 (G1) for a total of about 4 hours which was something like 80 or 90 launches!

When I did my A&B at Kirton Lyndsey in 1960, over2 weekends, when my record was checked after 3 solos I was put into the front seat again for two hangar flights to get the books straight.

At the age of sixteen, I went solo with the ATC at south Cerney. It took me thirty launches because I had a problem with 'Cable breaks'.


I then joined a civilian gliding club before joining the RAF & most took the piss out of my 'Two gulled' badge. In a way, they were both right & wrong at the same time. They were wrong because the air cadet organisation put many thousands of cadets to a very basic 'Solo standard' for free.


They were right in saying in saying that it was a 'Very basic gliding thing'.


I did a lot more gliding in the RAFGSA, but always hated cable breaks, once up & away, all is just fine.

ATC A&B Training
 

The main point about the ATC 'proficiency' training was to encourage youth from 'any background' towards aviation, plus give them a great opportunity for self development combined with a sensible level of discipline. The fact that so many went on to help run the 'schools' and give back something to the system says it all. I can not think of any other organisation that encouraged youth to become a major part of a disciplined training system with the responsibilities of using technical equipment and also mentoring other cadets. This was a amazing situation that worked well and sent tens of thousands off into adult life with a real START. The civvy clubs were not geared up for anything like this and indeed their focus was on competitions and badges which many Cadets would never had been able to afford. I do not see that an organisation that could regularly train a youth to fly an aeroplane to solo standard in just over an hours flight time including the equivalent of EFTO (CB to us) has to answer to anyone about what it stood for and how well it did it. VENTURE ADVENTURE stood the test of time, and the Country was better off for it.

Hear Hear.

There were occasions when the cadets found themselves looking down their noses at the RAF. I remember the occasion when the CO of 612 was trying to get the Benson Staish solo on the Venture. As the aircraft dropped out of the sky yet again to bounce its way down the runway a watching cadet was heard to say "How the hell did he ever lead the Red Arrows?".
That Staish never went solo on the VGS but a later one did and became a member of staff on 612.