I think you mean you've come to a private arrangement with the parents of some of the ATC cadets... Sqns are specifically forbidden from organising anything.

Indeed so. As a fomer Wing Staff Officer and WGLO, from memory (and I assume it hasn't changed much since I left last year), there are very clear parameters that have to be met for Opportunity Flights (as they were called then), particularly around the experience of the aircraft commander (minimum 500 hrs P1 seems to spring to mind), if it were to be classed as a legitimate ATC activity and hence covered by insurance. One of my Squadrons tried to set up an arrangement with a local flying organisation and I had to meet and give them chapter and verse on what the minimum standards and processes to follow were from the appropriate guidance and at that point, nothing moved on. Whether it ever did, I don't know as I left the ACO not long afterwards, but its a route that has to be trod very carefully and could be a real bear pit if, God forbid anything went wrong. .

Crying shame to see the Air Cadet gliding movement grounded but, although no-one has suggested it was 'dangerous', if it comes back safer after its enforced break, who can argue?

I look forward to seeing them airborne again just as soon as can possibly be managed

Why on earth 500hrs P1 when some of the VGS instructors have a panic attack if you ask them to fly outside the ATZ! (Ok, that's slightly tongue in cheek, but you don't need anywhere near 500hrs P1 to fly a Cadet in a Vigilant or Viking). :eek:

From what I understand, they are offering scholarships to a select few Cadets chosen by 2FTS to fly with RAFGSA gliding clubs. Sounds like a good scheme for those on or around their 17th birthday that might miss out over the 12 month 'pause'.

LJ

Why on earth 500hrs P1 when some of the VGS instructors have a panic attack if you ask them to fly outside the ATZ! (Ok, that's slightly tongue in cheek, but you don't need anywhere near 500hrs P1 to fly a Cadet in a Vigilant or Viking).


Now, now. There are a lot of airline pilots in the VGS world, not to mention several senior retired RAF aircrew. We rather like going outside the ATZ on occasion when it's CAVOK. You must be confusing us with the AEF guys. :rolleyes:

'Scared to fly outside the ATZ'?

Hell, we used to do that routinely in the Barge (T21)!

Has there any news if anything, Vigilant/Viking, has taken to the air yet? Or is the grounding still ongoing?

The 'pause' is still on pause...:hmm:

Leon et al,
The 500 hour requirement was still in ATC rules and regs late last year, when I checked it. There are also other criteria which I don't recall at the moment.

There is also a get-out type clause which mentioned that those criteria might be waived, subject to the pilot in question being interviewed by someone high up the chain of command.Please excuse me if I've paraphrased the rules more than a bit.

As an ATC CI, and holding PPL with 300 or so hours, I did look at offering rides to cadets to get some of them airborne whilst this hiatus is still going on, hence my checking the rules. As I didn't have the 500+, that strangled the idea at birth.

As an alternative, surely there are several flying schools around the country that could fly cadets, if the paperwork system could be sorted out?

According to recent EASA rules, flying training organisations have to be registered and vetted by the CAA, to allow them to train people to PPL standard. Were the Air Cadet authorities to start with these groups, surely something could be done?

It breaks my heart to talk to the kids every week and not be able to get them airborne, which is the reason why so many join the ACO. It's what attracted me to it over 50 years ago.

rumour is its for the long term. They are hoping to possibly get 1 Vigilant airborne this month.
They have not started looking at the Vikings yet.

Good grief, what a mess ! With my civvie gliding club head on I fielded a membership enquiry this evening from a young air cadet desperate to fly who couldn't understand why the ATC no longer offer it. I'm reminded of a wonderful episode of Yes Mininster featuring a hospital bustling with administrative activity but no patients - Sir Humphrey naturally saw nothing wrong with this arrangement !

The age for solo in the UK is now 14 in gliders, not sure if there is an age limit added on by the ATC?

I have heard from usually good sources that Sept 15 is the earliest you may see ATC gliders and motor-gliders back in the air. We are continuing to do all that we can to satisfy the Cadet's desire to fly under our own private arrangements with the Cadets and their families.

Unfortunately whatever return to flying programme is put in place can not estimate the number of staff that may wish to recommit to sacrificing their weekends after such a long break. Their families and spouses have got used to having their grounded glider pilots around and this might cause some reluctance to recommit.

When we tried to form a microlight AEF at RAF Halton, supported by our enthusiastic Wg Ad O, (a retired rock Wg Cdr) we got a special 'blood chit' approved by HQAC which had to be signed by a parent to acknowledge the cadets were not on ATC duty whilst they were being flown. This got us round the 'min 500hrs P1' rule and we successfully flew many cadets from local squadrons; I personally did many 'first flights' for cadets.
Subsequently in 1996/7, the same flying club (called the Ridge Runners') was approved by HQAC and CFS to carry out Microlight Flying Scholarships with qualified civilian instructors who had been checked out by CFS. I think about 16 cadets got a 'Restricted' PPL(M).

Then the money ran out......

I hear that the Tutor units are strating to move from Wyton to Wittering in the spring. Does anyone know if (a) this is true and (b) what the schedule might be, please?

One assumes that this will also cause some sort of delay in the pipeline as well, although I'd be happy if anyone in the know could correct this.

Thanks
B:O

Unfortunately the provision for civilian flights to be approved has in effect been withdrawn - certainly CCF TEST officers have been told not to approve any requests. And the problem with civilian gliding is that the RAF feels that they need to inspect each and every provider, rather than just taking the BGA's word for it that the club is safe.

Not strictly accurate is it? Of the three types of flying available to air cadets (ie dedicated powered flying, gliding and opportunity flights in Service aircraft), one of the above is temporarily suspended (albeit for a lengthy period). Yes the AEFs aren't all running at full capacity yet following the Tutor groundings, but I understand that the picture on this front is generally improving; and while there aren't as many opportunities to fly in Service aircraft as there used to be, you could have said that every successive year since the 1940s!

It could actually be a lot worse. Maybe it's going to get worse...but right now plenty of cadets are getting airborne one way or another. For example, last summer every Sqn in West Mercian Wing ATC had at least one cadet flown in a Squirrel during the Wing Training Weekend, and about the same time all 40-odd cadets taking part in a No 2 Welsh Wing exercise at Nesscliffe were flown into the exercise area in Griffins. A drop in the ocean? Maybe, but better than nothing at all.

Wyton to Wittering
 

Bobward,

The best guess is that Tutor flying will transfer from Wyton to Wittering sometime next month. However, there may be a delay in being able to fly cadets as the cadet rooms are unlikely to be ready for use.

BB

Its been reported that the first 'Airworthy' Vigilant has flown since the 'Pause' was called.
Just how long it'll take to get the rest flying again and all the VGS staff (what's left of them) current again is anyone's guess.