Actually Teeters

They do have Shadow BGA numbers................. so a G Reg move would be fairly easy. Not that it's going to happen of course...............

Arc

Thanks ARC - that'll teach me to believe what "some bloke told me in a bar!" :ok:

Anyone told the staff of ETPS that?

That is a good point.

When on duty VGS CGI's are actually Civil Servants.................


Arc

KISS
 

I was always told to keep it simple (KISS).

The obvious solution (which has been thrown out by the VSOs) is is to put them (the Vikings) on the civil register. Would solve most of the obstacles currently being put up. But there, what do any of us know about it😂

Cause & Effect
 

If the cause of the so called pause was because of poor workmanship, improper maintenance & repairs and loss of the appropriate documentation by the employees of the contractor and sub contractor(s) with the effect that the aircraft were deemed to be (and in some cases were) not airworthy and required a lengthy and costly investigation into such, and which is requiring an equally lengthy and costly recovery operation, should then the fees paid for such improper work done be not recovered from the contractor (s) and be paid back into the ACO budget?

Furthermore, as the lengthy and costly recovery operation is as a direct result of the said poor workmanship, improper maintenance & repairs and loss of the appropriate documentation by the employees of the contractor and sub contractor(s), should not then the contractors be responsible for the cost of the recovery operation rather than be paid for out of the ACO budget? :confused:

Cause and effect
 

I suspect the original contract and its requirements will not be as 'robust' to the point that compensation is an option;plus the other question to be covered is why it took so long for the problem to surface. There seems to be a complete lack of 'oversight' on the part of the RAF/MOD who in the end are responsible for delivering a service to the ACO; which has been funded, and paid for yet no service provided. I do not imagine the VSO's will be keen to have an in depth investigation as to why they have allowed this situation to develop.
No doubt a cleaner somewhere will go to the stake.

Pobjoy,
As I said in post 2198:-

What I'd like to know is what the SO1 & SO2 Engineering, Quality Audit and Contract Management posts and Soaring (Oxford) at Syerston were doing prior to 'the pause'.

As I understand it from a previous 2FTS statement, one of those from the above is overseeing 'the recovery' - as he was in post at least a year before'the pause', what was he doing?


7700

Squawking 7700

I don't know what he was doing for the year before - or what he did in the 2 years since.................

I can tell you that what he is doing now: Covering his Ar$e like crazy. I bet the shredder is working overtime.................

Arc

Arc,
No shredder required.......as nothing's been documented anyway!!!!


7700

Taxpayer and ACO Budget protection
 

[QUOTE=ACW342;9337348]If the cause of the so called pause was because of poor workmanship, improper maintenance & repairs and loss of the appropriate documentation by the employees of the contractor and sub contractor(s) with the effect that the aircraft were deemed to be (and in some cases were) not airworthy and required a lengthy and costly investigation into such, and which is requiring an equally lengthy and costly recovery operation, should then the fees paid for such improper work done be not recovered from the contractor (s) and be paid back into the ACO budget?

Furthermore, as the lengthy and costly recovery operation is as a direct result of the said poor workmanship, improper maintenance & repairs and loss of the appropriate documentation by the employees of the contractor and sub contractor(s), should not then the contractors be responsible for the cost of the recovery operation rather than be paid for out of the ACO budget? :confused:[/QUOTE


I'm pleased to see ACW342 and POBJOY and others mentioning the unmentionable !. I have just written to my MP enclosing a list of FOI questions with regard to the extremely lax proceedings where negligence may have taken place under a contractual matter. Not only that, there is the little matter of who were the RAF supervisors of the ACO/RAF Fleet of Grob Viking and Vigilant A/C both before and after the problematic civilian contract ?


Usually I get a 24 hr response from my MP, but thus far it's Radio silence !!


Legally, if Her Majesty's Government is/was aware that they may have a legal case, then the "clock" starts to run from the "Date of Knowledge", ( i.e., when the injured party first becomes aware of a legal issue or breach of contract) for the statutory period ( 6 years) before the case becomes statute barred, and after which, unless extension time is sought and approved by the Courts, no further action can be taken.


As for the Officers allegedly supervising the said contract(s), then that too should be a matter for service discipline rather than silently stealing away or obtaining further promotion. Civilian contracts STILL require supervision and quality management, despite some of our current Government thinking that sub-contractors solve all problems ! Perhaps it works like politics where you merely move on quietly, get a gong and retire very comfortably.


It may well suit certain parties that the "limitation clock" is allowed to tick away un-noticed, but it is for all of us, the Taxpayers, to ensure that it is not ignored.


Come on Mr Cameron , take a moment or two off Panama and EU Brexit issues, and spend a moment or two asking your Defence Ministry what on earth has been going on !

Ref ACO SNCO/WO pilots and instructors- they're still civilians, not subject to military law. The only way staff would benefit would be that they could claim pay when they're on courses.

Also, I can't imagine there would be enough demand for the ACO's Adult Training Facility to design and host bespoke courses for them. I would then presume that they'd be sent on the SSIC, which would be almost entirely useless to them.

Delay again
 

Article in Sunday Telegraph says delay caused by inability to find suitable contractor to do the work. Carefully avoids why the work is needed

Article in Sunday Telegraph
 

Tinribs Suggest you use this article as a good reason to e-mail the writer and inform him/her of the 'reasons'. I have done this twice now to other papers.
The 'Pen'/ E-mail is still a powerful tool.

Sunday Telegraph
 

Tin Ribs, can you give me the name of the journalist, I think i might forward my email to the three First Ministers of the devolved governments (Yes, for those who wish to point it out, I am aware that defence is not a devolved matter)

Thanks

A342

EnigmaAviation:-

This is what has been going on:-

https://sites.google.com/site/militaryairworthiness/

I'm afraid that ACO gliders are the least of the ramifications of the sabotage by VSOs that has been the subject of a cover up ever since it was perpetrated. The entire UK military air fleet is riddled with unairworthiness as a consequence, and the organisation responsible for sorting that out cannot face up to it as it is subject to the same cover up enforced at the highest levels. So let's lynch a Group Captain or two instead to placate the mob. That should at least make us all feel better even if it achieves nothing else...

Scottish PFI Schools Closed
 

Is it me, or are there any parallels to be drawn between the Air Cadet Gliding debacle and this?

Frelon:-

Not directly Frelon, no. In your example it is alleged at least that the contractors reneged on their responsibility to abide by the regulations and build accordingly. In the case of UK Military Airworthiness the authority itself (aka the MOD) reneged on its responsibility to abide by the regulations, ordering them instead to be suborned and eventually to be largely done away with. Until that is acknowledged by the MAA then it remains part of the problem. What the contractors did faced with such subversion is a secondary consideration I would suggest.

Tomorrow Wednesday Westminster Hall Debates - UK Parliament

30 minutes to save the world..................

Talk is cheap, money buys the beer................. not expecting any money........

Arc