It appears that where there have been 'issues' with flying operations (including AEF) the resultant 'fix' has been to instigate more equipment fitment, and compulsory ATC requirement.
Again this has ignored the basic VFR rules that one must adopt a good look out rather than rely on equipment that means even more instruments to scan (inside the cockpit). The whole ATC radio thing also gives a false sense of security in the VFR regime of operations and ignores the basic VFR concept.

You seem to have missed the point of DEMONSTRABLY safe. The gliding schools, run by skilled and enthusiastic volunteers kept inadequate records, for reasons which were systemic. As you are aware, but willingly overlook, the tragic loss of life in AEF flying had nothing to do with contract supply of aircraft.

Basic VFR rules have not been ignored, basic VFR rules do not rule out other means than lookout. Situational awareness has been augmented, why on earth would you reject a better mental picture?

I can only hope the flying records were better kept than the maintenance ones. However without the correct maintenance records it's not possible to demonstrate that the gliders are airworthy. I sincerely hope that the records are correctly kept in the future for the gliders being returned to service, otherwise the money currently being spent is a complete & utter waste of money.

Absolutely correct, a systemic failure and one that should have been identified earlier by an operational safety audit and eventually was.

Ah, but he does have an exemplary safety record for the past four years with all of the Air Cadet fleet grounded.........

Very droll: why spoil such a witty, if often used, one liner with facts.

Perhaps I could offer a couple of observations here.

In my view ( based on a fair amount of research) the problems with the ATC glider fleet started in the 80s with a rushed procurement of a large fleet of GRP gliders and powered aircraft. The MoD (and the RAF) failed to set up the required systems for supporting this fleet, and appear to have operated for many years without an effective Design Authority.

This initial failure was then compounded by a long running and systemic failure to maintain the aircraft properly in service. Some on this thread like to blame 'civilianisation'. Sadly, the fault (in my view) lay with the failure of the responsible RAF engineers to do their jobs and MoD staffs who failed to properly manage and supervise the support contracts they had set up. I believe that the well publicised efforts to strip the MoD of engineering specialists (led by RAF VSOs) in the 1980s and 90s probably contributed to the MoD's problems. The upshot is that by 2013, the ATC fleet was non-airworthy, mainly due to gaping holes in the mandated airworthiness documentation chain. Various reports have confirmed serious gaps in the RAF's QA arrangements, and failures to implement airworthiness critical recommendations. There were also major failures in recording of repairs and retention of documentation. Basically, poor engineering practice.

The whole scandal was finally exposed not by an operational safety audit, but by 2FTS' failure to pass a CAMO audit by the MAA. Even worse, it then took 2FTS another 15 months to grasp the scale of the problem. In the end, it took a direct threat from the MAA to get them to sort out their engineering organisation. The recovery, as is well known, has been painfully slow and required the loss of 40% of the fleet.

It's a major scandal. School children were being flown in non-airworthy RAF aircraft. The costs to the taxpayer haven't been revealed but must be substantial. Sadly, to date, no-one has been held accountable.

Best Regards as ever to all those working hard to make ATC flying safe again.

Engines

Current wisdom is that See and be Seen is not infallible. Professionals now recommend utilizing all available aids.

No 'system' is infallible. There is absolutely no excuse for not using all available aids.

End of the Vigilants
 

Just when you thought the recovery was well underway JM and 2FTS drop another bombshell. Farewell Vigilant fleet 2 years early, see below

'The 2016 relaunch of Air Cadet Gliding stated we would operate up to 15 Vigilant powered gliders with an Out of Service Date (OSD) of October 2019, 6 having been recovered already. The recovery of remaining 9 Vigilant aircraft relied on an innovative recovery proposal from Grob Aircraft SE. This is no longer an option. The removal of this option, challenging technical support for 2 fleets, and low Vigilant availability mean that continued operation of Vigilant is no longer considered viable. Consequently, we will withdraw the Vigilant glider fleet from service immediately, bringing forward its planned OSD. The Topcliffe VGS will convert to the Viking aircraft earlier than originally planned. This approach will free up engineers and allow the glider engineering enterprise to focus solely on the safe recovery and operation of the Viking fleet.'

They should close 2 FTS and admit they do not have a clue about organising anything that actually gets airborne. Its not funny anymore just a continuing waste of money that may as well go to the GSA/Clubs to provide ACO flying. No leadership, no capability, no idea about anything that gets Cadets airborne. Sad but true; why keep the 'jam tomorrow' scenario going, its only providing well paid jobs for those who are providing NOTHING for the Cadets.

If true what an absolute diabolical waste of taxpayers money. Should at least be auctioned for parts.

As I said earlier, blunties running it, last two have had no experience running a station.

Yes it's from wiki but,

"Headquarters No. 2 FTS was heavily criticised for not communicating the plans to withdraw the Vigilant T1 from service and the restructuring resulting in closure of many volunteer gliding squadrons.[9] Criticism was also voiced with respect to its retention policy of volunteer personnel, management of its contracted maintenance organization, failure to achieve continued airworthiness management organisation approval during two years of non-flying[10], limited recovery of aircraft, and the approach for acquiring Part Task Trainers with grants from the RAF Charitable Trust."

From the 645 VGS Facebook page this afternoon , 7 May ;

The Grob Vigilant T1 formally retires after 27 Years of service with the Royal Air Force.

At 1600 hours on Sunday 6th May 2018 the RAF retired from service a beloved aircraft which has been close to the hearts of many Air Cadets, Staff and instructors alike.

The Grob Vigilant T1 Motor Glider entered service in 1991 and has served the Air Cadets proudly over her 27 years in service. Allowing cadets aged 16 and over to fly a powered aircraft solo on either their BGT (Basic Glider Training) or Sliver Wings Gliding Scholarship as it is now or AGT (Advanced Glider Training). Cadets of all ages have also been able to fly the Vigilant through aviation packages.

Many an Air Cadet and instructor have used the Vigilant as a stepping stone into careers in aviation, and the training they received was second to none. We have had 2 of our ex-instructors; Flt Lt James Sainty and Flt Lt Paul Kitczma join the RAF and both are Flying the mighty Eurofighter Typhoon. Another instructor James Nealings has just started on the path to become an RAF pilot.

We also have ex and current instructors flying for Easyjet, Jet2, Ryan Air, Cathay Pacific and Emirates who all started flying on the mighty Vigilant.

One senior instructor with 645 VGS, Sqn Ldr Paul Watts had accumulated over 5000 hours on the Vigilant and flew the aircraft from when it entered service.

The Vigilant offered instructors a fantastic training platform compared to the Viking where instructor and trainee were sat side by side and could stay airborne for as long as the sortie needed, ensuring consistent and effective bespoke training for each student.

The basic and very simple cockpit layout and controls made it very easy to master the Vigilant and all that flew her would agree she was a pleasure and a dream to fly. There will be many a tear shed following her retirement and it’s an aircraft you had a passion and love for.

It has been an honour and a privilege to have been given the opportunity for 645 VGS to be the only unit to have continued flying the Vigilant for the 20 months we have following the pause. We have also had the pleasure of 631 VGS (Woodvale) flying with us at RAF Topcliffe making up a joint unit flying the Vigilant.

We always knew the Vigilant was nearing the end of her service but we expected this would not be as soon as it has been.

645 VGS at RAF Topcliffe was the last unit to fly the Vigilant and they gave her a fantastic send off even awarding Flight Staff Cadet FS Dan Griffin his Grade 1 pilots (G1) wings. Also FSC Nathan Jennions was awarded his silver wings after being the last cadet to fly the Vigilant solo and FSC Harley Preston completed his Gold Wings Glider Training. Well done to them all.

The final flight was flown in ZH207 which was the same aircraft that saw 645 VGS return to the skies on Saturday 17th September 2016. The final sortie flown by OC 645 Sqn Ldr Stephen Hughes took to the air in the final flight of the Vigilant at 15:37hrs. His student was Cadet Edward Goulding from 610 (City of Chester) who was completing his Blue wings aviation package.

They touched down on runway 13 at 15:57 as the aircraft taxied back it was given a guard of honour from the squadron staff as well as an amazing and heart warming airborne salute from the Yorkshire Air Ambulance Eurocopter EC145.

This sad but proud moment marked the final flight and retirement of the mighty Grob Vigilant T1. She had been the flagship for the Air Cadets for 27 years and will be greatly missed.

OC 645 Sqn Ldr Stephen Hughes said “it has been an honour and a privilege to fly the last ever cadet flight in the Vigilant Motor Glider. We all understand the reasons, but can’t help but feel it’s a shame it is being removed from service early. She has served as an excellent platform to train and give the experience of solo flight to thousands of Air Cadets all over the country”.

He continued “As the squadron moves forward I look forward to moving the squadron back to the Viking, which 645 VGS operated from its entry into service in November 1984 until March 2003 when we moved to RAF Topcliffe. There will be many challenges to face in the conversion process as well as a completely different way of operating, however I hope we will be flying cadets again soon”

He also said “I am delighted to announce that in the interim we will continue to offer the cadet aviation ground school packages and PTT training at RAF Topcliffe”.

Cadet Edward Goulding of 610 (City of Chester) squadron was the last ever cadet to fly in the Vigilant. It was also his first flight. He commented “This memorable flight was my first ever in a Glider. I really enjoyed it and look forward to flying in the Viking”.

As OC 645 VGS confirmed, Instructors from 645 VGS will in the coming months convert to the Viking conventional Glider and we hope it won’t be to long before we will operate out of Topcliffe with the Viking. Until then we will still offer cadets Ground Based aviation packages.

We would like to thank all the squadrons, cadets and VGS staff over the years that have flown in or operated the Vigilant and join us in remembering all the fantastic experience and opportunities this great little aircraft has offered.

Flt Lt Aaron O’Roarty
645 VGS
Media Communications Officer

[QUOTEMedia Communications Officer][/QUOTE]

Like all good journalists, 'never letting the facts get in the way of a good story'.
Some of us remember converting and getting our C to I on the Vigilant in 1990.

>The recovery of remaining 9 Vigilant aircraft relied on an innovative recovery proposal from Grob Aircraft SE. This is no longer an option.<

Can anyone clarify why "This is no longer an option"? And what precisely stops the Vigilant fleet from being sold into the ordinary civilian market and refurbished or re-engined as required, as the Ventures were?

The epic loss of face to the 'leadership' that would be experienced when the airframes were flying again 6 months later...

Is my guess! Without intervention, I anticipate they will all be cut up and incur additional disposal costs...

Innotive recovery proposal
 

I suspect that Grob do not actually have a procedure for this and the cost of preparing one and 'covering' themselves, with a fleet that already has a questionable paperwork history probably got their financial,and legal team quite excited. Had it been one of their 'off the shelf' models then things may have been different.
Yes we know that if these machines went into the civvy world common sense would prevail and they would all be flying again; however that would make the whole ATC/RAF/MOD/2FTS operation look very amateur and may even prompt even more questions as to various 'capabilities' amongst those running the show, and getting well paid to not provide anything.
Sad to say that the Air Cadet Organisation has been badly let down by those paid to provide a service, but not let down by those providing the actual flying training at the 'schools'. The whole 2 FTS 'thing' is an expensive joke, and just a cost that does not justify itself. But the real E I T Room is this whole debacle shows what a COMPLETE LACK OF LEADERSHIP AND ABILITY HAS BEFALLEN THE CADET ORGANISATION AS A WHOLE, and unless that gets changed nothing else will, and they will just produce more spin, hype, twatter,and fancy adverts, promoting their sad attempts to keep their jobs going. All these people had to do was to keep the standards up, and 'maintain' the situation, as the 'system' at source was NOT BROKEN and indeed never was from a delivery of flying training point.

The buck stops, where?
 

Can I suggest that anyone sympathetic to the Air Cadet gliding debacle attending a mutual back-slapping in this RAF 100 year could try and raise awareness of the situation that has occurred? The intention being, to precipitate a drive for future Air Cadet gliding cast in the mould of it's previous success!

OAP

Retirement is one thing, euthanasia through neglect and incompetence quite another. A sad end for the Vigilant and another bad day for the ACO.

The ACOs bad days are coming thick and fast and managerial incompetnce from the 'Towers' is responsible.


Just recently walked away from working with the ACO as they have been breaking all their own rules and the lies and deceit from the management is sickening.

What a total and utter shambles! The cadets will suffer and I know that the volunteer staff at all levels are more than unimpressed! I have very recently retired from the ACO due to a mixture of old age and complete disgust at the way it is being run by the full-time (paid!) so called "professionals"!! The staff on the Squadrons, Wing etc. must be really fed up (not guessing!!).

Bill

Middleton will still get a Knighthood for his services to the ACO.

There's little point having a go at the Middleton person. You need to view this as another Nimrod MRA4. Read the Nimrod Review, but substitute Gliders for Nimrod. Or do the same with ANY of the Airworthiness Review Team reports of the 90s. Or the Director Internal Audit report of 1996. Or the EAC audit report of 1988. The blame lies higher up, and goes back many years.

There is a point in having a go. Not so much for the engineering failure, which is clearly not of his making, but for his abject failure to treat with any kind of decency, courtesy or respect the men and women who have decided- often against their better judgement- to continue to work for him for free because otherwise the kids will lose out. Please trust me when I say this, nobody who has met the man has a decent word to say about him and, given a choice, they will take active steps to avoid him. He is a complete morale hoover for both his own staff and any crewroom he waddles into. I save the use of the C-bomb for very special cases and he exceeds every metric I use. I'm glad I'm free of the whole mess.

Cat Funt (great!), I cannot disagree with you, but you describe many in MoD other than Middleton; both serving and civilian. Management sets the tone. As his management (ultimately the Air Staff) also acts like this, Middleton is encouraged in his manner.
While the problems on gliders have come to a head this decade, the underlying systemic failures were notified to these very senior staff in, at latest, January 1988. Gliders are simply the latest in a long line of failures, many of which resulted in avoidable deaths. What I'd like to know is why it has taken so long. Nimrod MRA4 was (belatedly) cancelled 8 years ago because it could never be made airworthy. Gliders suffered the same way. You need to join the dots. In 2011, when Flt Lt Cunningham was killed, MoD had to admit there was no valid Hawk safety case. Same with gliders. Same Type Airworthiness Authority. If you want to start somewhere with an individual, there's a clue. But work upwards, not downwards.

Quiz Time.........fingers at the ready!
 

The Vigilant 'fleet' is being replaced with?

A) a nice new fleet of shiny motor-gliders.
B) f**k all.

Management will get?

A) the sack.
B) medals.

Tuc, of course you are right with the practical explanation and perhaps the very fact that aircraft have been grounded/withdrawn/destroyed is indicative of senior officers actually waking-up to the issues and doing the 'right thing' (insofar as they recognise the problem and from a personal level are unwilling to continue the charade). However, that leaves two major issues - One, how do you get out of the mess without available cash? Two, how do you retain a vital volunteer 'force' if you are ever going to stop the rot or have devised a cunning plan to answer question one?

I spent a mere quarter of a century in the RAF and can say, hand on heart, that the current AOC 22 Gp (Bunny) and previous (Andy T) are good men and they are strong managers; the same cannot be said of Comdt 2 FTS. Of course, AOCs don't have much influence here, it's far more convoluted. :)

A while back I was talking to some Boy Scouts at a town parade, I was with the local ATC squadron. A couple of the scouts said they wanted to join the RAF so I asked why they stayed in the scouts and did not join the ATC.
Their collective response was "Why would we do that? We can do far more in the scouts" - They, in their youth, hit the nail on the head.

We found out about a few hours before the BADER release!

Really good management, NOT !!!

Cows

I cannot speak for the volunteer force, except to sympathise with their plight. These people gave their time freely only to be royally shat upon.

But I can offer personal experience on .
What may at first be a limitation, can easily become a constraint if allowed to fester. This case is a good example.
From what little I know, when this glider problem was identified it was a limitation. Clearing it should be self-tasked by the most junior civil servant engineer in the Service HQ. You don't need telling. It's a line item in your TORs. When in that position many moons ago (on avionics), it was a routine expectation that I find that money, from underspends or offsets. (I think £22M was the most I had to find at the drop of a hat). Effectively, it was an in-year project, but without the nause of submissions and approvals. Far less hassle than a UOR. There is a Def Stan that is the bible. Write down the problems, and find where they're mentioned. (And the WILL be). Read, and implement.
Admittedly, I didn't have to deal with a Middleton. Usually it was Commander (Air) at a Typed Air Station. But the principles are the same. You're there to help, and I've never come across anyone who wasn't on-side. From a civvy's perspective, that is a good system. If you do come across a Middleton, you find yourself with an address book full of contacts, many senior to him. It may seem odd to a serviceman within a strict rank structure, but "You're standing into danger" and a half page briefing is usually enough. In short order, he's called his (real) #2, the Charge Chief. Almost certainly he already knows of the problem and solution, but the Service culture has made it difficult to raise at a high enough level to authorise resources and red tape cutting. But now, #1 is telling him to crack on. He gladly does the work, as he's now got top cover and resources. I guarantee those on gliders will be nodding sagely.
Now, tell me why today's PTs and the MAA can't do this. Starter for ten. None of them have ever experienced a word of what I've said.

Out of interest where are all the Vigilants currently located - bar the Topcliffe 3? They've vanished and are holed up somewhere - all 50 odd of them.

I wonder how long the Topcliffe guys will be grounded for again as they sort the conversion onto Viking, winches, retrieve vehicles.
Actually are they able to operate from the airfield with it's runway lighting and recent resurfacing?

Finding out at 10am on a busy bank holiday with a full program is such incompetence it's insulting.

Like they wouldn't have known on Friday?