Alison Conway,

RAFA Club, some happy times :ok: I think my best free phone home was en route in to AKR on the way back from the Far East. Co pilot kindly got me a phone patch and the whole crew heard our "domestic" as we passed over the pyramids. If I recall correctly, and what a coincidence, the Air Eng on that trip is the gentleman standing fourth from the left on AA62s picture #1737. How spooky is that.

Best

Smudge:ok:

A question for the "two winged master race" who are suitably qualified on Albert. I well remember a conversation with a Captain I enjoyed accompanying to Hong Kong, one A****r H****y, who had no concerns at the thought of total hydraulic failure, and subsequent loss of flying controls. Differential engine control for directional operation and obviously increase/decrease of power settings for climb/descent. Anyone ever contemplated such a scenario ? My suggestion, of operating the change over lever and using the Aux system, was credibly ignored in the conversation. So, was engine control something proffered as part of the type conversion, or follow on training ? I only ask because as someone only qualified to fly a glider, the thought of loss of flying controls leads to a parachute option only.

Smudge:ok:

IIRC Smuj the control systems on Albert were via hydraulic booster packs. Failure of both HYD systems wouldn't cause a loss of control per sé but the controls would become bloody heavy. Hence the foot rails on the coaming for both pilots to brace against.

I tried it in the Sim once but it was nigh on bloody impossible!


WRT diff power, we used to practice this on the ground for manoeuvring in the case of a loss of nosewheel steering (with diff reverse), I'm not sure how effective diff power would be in the air (Google Sioux City DC10).

Ex Ascoteer,

Thanks for that. I rather suspect the discussion came up after a good bit of party room banter (and beers). I believe though that four turboprops might have offered more controllability than the DC10 at Sioux City. Of course the scenario is considered in that Albert had manual reversion for both Landing gear and Flaps (wind down mechanism). I'm just speculating, only ever having had a few "clutches" of the controls in flight, the veracity of my Captains certainty of being able to maintain control. I'm sure he knew better than I ever could.

Smudge:ok:

Thought this may be of interest-don't think I've posted it before - One of the crews being engaged on short finals into Sarajevo. I may have a better copy of it coming soon.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/p...psd7676f4d.jpg

We left Nairobi after ,for me at least, a quiet night stop. We presented the Minister with a detachment tee shirt and she astounded and impressed all of us by promptly wearing it.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps5d780888.jpg
My view of politicians had taken a severe knock. After an offload at Baidoa we flew to Mogadishu for a prolonged stop whilst the minister had discussions with the relief staff. Then on to Djibouti for a night stop. Why we went there I have no idea but as suspected the French were in evidence as I saw a C160 parked up. The VIP party was whisked away but it took us over three hours to fight our way through the system and by the time we got to the hotel it was late with an early start scheduled for the next day. http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...psbfd0af33.jpg

The lady herself getting a flying lesson from the captain.

Smudge, I think you would need a very strong harness to get to the Aux to Util lever, being forward of the para door on the outside if I remember. ( Last flight 1989) Manual override of the flying controls would have been very stressful but some use of trim tabs may help. Once had a left main gear hang up and had to use the crank handle. It wouldn't go either so I found a very large Warrant Officer passenger and pressganged him to put some welly on to it. He strained for a couple of minutes and with a huge bang the thing cleared and free fell. Much relief, turned out to have fouled the emergency brake hose which the good WO broke.

Bugged on the right,

Yep, I have to say if you had got to the point where you had lost all four hydraulic puns (causing loss of the Utility and Booster systems), you would be lucky to still be airborne. I've been aboard aircraft returning from Norway in the winter where the gear has been frozen, and refused to come down. Usually it was "fixed" by opening the small floor level access panels and allowing the cabin air to warm them up.

Smudge:ok:

smudge
coming home from Canada in the winter would often result in frozen u/c.
Usually only one of the MLG legs would refuse to move and the procedure you describe would be resorted to. Lots of ways to get a reluctant u/c down but some would have been very time consuming.
I seem to recall that when operating in very cold snowy climes we had to check on the initial taxy that the wheels actually rotated and that they were not merely being dragged along the ice by the power of the engines.
Does anyone know the outcome of the SI into the wheels up landing of the 'K' at Brize ? Only curious as if it was not tech then I have my own theory how it could happen.

Smudge, forgive if the memories a bit hazy but I believe it was you that had an Engineer's Pipe, if so does it see much use these days, think a video of it in action is in order :D

TBT,

No, I think it was someone else, I Usually stuck to the ciggies. Gave them up around 4 years ago. My first port of call after landing was usually the nearest permitted smoking place though:O

AA62,

Aviation Safety Network has a brief piece on this incident & includes the following Narrative :-Made a wheels up landing at Brize Norton, Oxfordshire suffering CAT3 damage. Initial investigations found no fault with the aircraft systems. Aircraft used for spares recovery, then Ground Instructional use at Brize Norton.

I've had a few conversations with people who have some knowledge, though no aircrew. The words MLG Warning horn circuit breaker is often part of such conversations:uhoh:

Smudge:ok:

smudge,
yes the u/c warning horn cct brkr was my first thought when I read of the incident. It is pulled on TS sorties to prevent the very loud noise causing a distraction especially at low level and critical phases of the drop as the throttles are retarded. It was part of the afterdrop/leaving DZ checks if memory serves. However if this was the case then these and the normal prelanding checks have either not been done or not done correctly.
When we first got the 'K' one of the loadmaster's pre landing checks was to ensure that the MLG drag pins were secure in the brackets. The check was removed after a few years.

Smudge, damn could've sworn it was you. The AGE in question used to take it down route in it's own aluminium padded box, I believe it was made up by workshops, in the days when a slab of beer could get you anything and was a feat of engineering, sometimes known as a Diver's Breath Tester or a Talcum Powder Pipe, it was normally deployed on baby co-pilots much to the amusement of the rest of the crew.

The Wheels UP at BZN was a combination of running change, Warn Horn C/B and missing out a checklist. The Eng in question is a good bloke and it was the usual chain of events that led to this unfortunate mishap.

I seem to recall that device being brought to a party room in Norway on one of the first GE routes of a young M****n E***y (NATO reporting Name 'Squeezy').

Mal Drop,

The pipe in question sounds right up the street of the gentleman you mention. Whilst I "loved him like a brother" I was fortunate enough not to accompany him down route, during the time that our tours coincided. There's only so much an old GE, with no hair can manage:eek: I do remember the stories of the pipe though.

TBT,

Yep, sometimes a chain of events can almost guarantee the approaching cock up. I well remember the first time I flew a Grob Astir, having my ear bent by the club CFI for failing to raise the undercarriage after release from the winch launch. To that point I had only ever flown gliders with fixed undercarriage. So, next launch I duly raised the gear, just after release from the cable. Downwind and the WULF checks were processed quickly, two other gliders vying to land at the same time. You guessed it, I forgot that I was flying the Astir, and reverted to ASK18 mode. The landing was the smoothest I had ever done, and thankfully on the grass, not the runway. The beers that night were an expensive way of learning a lesson, but thankfully no damage to the Astir:ugh:

Smudge:ok:

Still have the pipe safe and well in my cupboard, we called it the Benny Windmill as I got mine from MPA. Still has many people scratching their heads here in NZ.

And the memory kicks back in, yes it was the afore mentioned AGE, forgive me for confusing the two of you, Smudge. Anybody else off to K Day in the Five Bells tomorrow night, sounds like it's going to get very dangerous?

I've just done a quick search and came up with this delightful looking piece of technology;

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9780e872.jpg

I doubt that Mr "Squeezies" was so elaborate, or was it. Perhaps those who experienced it could let us know (Fergineer?) Apologies for thread drift, but it is part of "our" history. Unfortunately I'm otherwise engaged on Friday, but I hope everyone has a great time.

Smudge:ok:

Ah Smudge the secret stay a secret, you have to work it out. Mine is nowhere near as elaborate but does the job just as well.

The next morning we had to fight our way back through the departure system at Djibouti and were only just ready when the VIP party arrived. We left on schedule for the one hour trip to that (to me at least) unknown place Hargeisa .We were due for a stop of around four hours. As we taxied in it was obvious that the place had seem some action. Bits of SAM 2s littered the airfield and there was a general air of desolation and much destruction. The tower , ops buildings and the like were still there but with pock marked walls and all with broken windows.
Waiting for us was a guard of honour so we shut down and the VIP party disembarked and were whisked away for a 'wash and brush up' before formal talks. This visit was apparently the main reason for the whole trip.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...psa5676082.jpg

The MIG 15 you can see was used in the civil war until someone one dark night cut the throats of the two plots ! As it was reputed still to have rounds in the guns and the ejector seat was still armed we did not get too close !