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-   -   Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/538372-global-aviation-magazine-60-years-hercules.html)

ksimboy 17th Mar 2015 11:22

Dougie,
As always i totally concur with your comment. he did an outstanding job recovering the aircraft in what were unprecedented circumstances. Not sure how much truth there was in the rumours that they programmed the flight sim at Lyn with the faults experienced that day and the sim crashed every time.

Top Bunk Tester 17th Mar 2015 14:20

And the unfortunate demise of XV206 at Lashkar Gar

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/a...psh9jvngnu.jpg

middlesbrough 17th Mar 2015 20:27

Maritime IMC rules
 
In IMC fixed wing fly at 1000ft, helicopters 500ft, and don't overfly any surface vessel. Inexperienced in Maritime procedures may have been a factor?

Jackw106 18th Mar 2015 08:39

JATF 74 (Airborne)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTSMuoj3Slg

CoffmanStarter 18th Mar 2015 08:59

Jackw106 ... Great find :ok:

ancientaviator62 18th Mar 2015 11:00

Jackw106,
thanks for the link. I do not remember ever seeing this film before despite my long involvement with 'K' airdrop. The film brought back many memories of that time and the JATFOR trips in paricular. Actually gives a good view of the organised chaos of an operational para drop and the speed which the 'train' departs the a/c.
Nice to see the MSP (before the high frames) and SSP. In those days 16 Para HD Company did the MSP rigging and 47 AD did the I tons etc.
'Them were the days' !

Brian W May 18th Mar 2015 11:24

Wow, that brought back some memories!

Good stuff.

ksimboy 19th Mar 2015 14:54

JATFOR looks a lot scarier than the 15 ship iron gorillas I remember. The formation briefs for them were bad enough.

Dougie M 19th Mar 2015 15:28

JATFOR Vs ABEX
 
Too true. At least the 15 ship formation had SKE to keep them apart. JATFOR was VMC only and had excruciating penetrate and scatter plans in case of encountering weather . The cloudy sky was swarming with crud and custard Alberts up to 10,000 feet heading in all directions. The Loss of SKE procedures still kept you going the right way. There WERE however one or two buttock clenching moments!

CoffmanStarter 19th Mar 2015 16:14

Ksimboy, Dougie M ...

It looks like even current SKE Abort/Breakup SOP (with 15 aircraft in IMC - Outside CAS) would take up a lot of vertical airspace :eek:

See Annex A

UK Mil SKE

I bet the JATFOR Abort/Breakup would make the Red's 'Formation Break' look a bit limp ;)


.

Dougie M 19th Mar 2015 19:49

SKE
 
I never really liked SKE but it was sold to the army as a Blind Drop aid and they bought it. When they found out that the min IMC drop height would be at safety altitude they went off it a bit.
Well done for digging out the ATC angle on the use of SKE, but the previous point was that you could take your formation through iffy weather at base altitude or transit in IMC at medium altitude to a suitable let down long after JATFOR would have aborted.
In the event of Loss of SKE the first element lead stayed at base altitude, no 2 +500ft, no 3 +1000ft. The second elephant lead went to base +1500,2 +2000, 3+2500 Then the third elephant lead stayed down at base altitude and so on so you only had a stack from say 3000ft to 5500ft.
The JATFOR scatter sent people off to holding points on radials and ranges from tacans around the country and then recalled all 36 one by one. Nightmare!
Anyway, practising SKE procedures on low level missions gave you time for a cup of tea and the contents of your AH box.
I

CoffmanStarter 19th Mar 2015 20:04

Thanks Dougie ... Fascinating stuff :ok:

Brian W May 19th Mar 2015 20:14

Give me the 3 ship LPAC every time!

ksimboy 20th Mar 2015 07:32

I do recall a SKE weekend based at Leuchars which coincided with the Calcutta cup match at Murrayfield. The officers were invited to partake of Sgts Mess hospitality (with permission for once!) and a good time was had by all. One of the ALMs got slightly more friendly with the SWO (female type) than was normal. The classic call on the the SKE recovery of "SWO down SWO down go " reduced flight decks to tears and caused a rather ragged formation for a few minutes.

Brian W May 20th Mar 2015 19:55

Wasn't nasty Dave Crossan was it . . . or Roy Lewis . . . or Hegarty . . . oh my God the list is endless . . .

MPN11 20th Mar 2015 20:46

I thought we had an Air Force once ... JATFOR is a distant memory!

What now? Four platoons?

smujsmith 20th Mar 2015 20:55

Ahh Brian,

Some names to conjure with, but a certain A Hegerty would get my vote. Ksimboy, from what I read I assume that you were the Loady when 206 had its meeting with the chopper ? I was fortunate to be "crewed up" with nutty Bob at the back end of GW1 in Bahrain, we had some "interesting" approaches to Kuwait airport through the oil fire smoke, with the Comms alive with US helicopters. Finally, the JATFOR link is great stuff, so nice to see Albert in his true colours ;-))

Smudge:ok:

CoffmanStarter 20th Mar 2015 20:57

Great to see you back Smudge ... You've been missed :ok:

CoffmanStarter 20th Mar 2015 21:01

MPN11 ...

Welcome back ... Have you any stories you could share in respect of controlling either JATFOR or SKE Formations from the Air Traffic perspective :ok:

ksimboy 21st Mar 2015 06:30

Smuj, welcome back. It wasnt Hegrat, he wouldn't do such tedious things as SKE weekends. I was indeed the loadie that day down South. It was rather an interesting day when Nutty Bob flipped on the aircraft, just as well he was home when we did our South Georgia trip, that would definitely have sent him over the edge. Will save that story for later however.


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