Well not exactly actually. Despite the undoubted ASW skills present within the FAA Merlin force, the simple fact is that the FAA are struggling to man their own force. If they divert people to a future MPA/MMA then they stretch an already stretched force, probably beyond breaking point.

The simple fact is, most of the Armed Forces of the UK are now one brick thick. We have, as TOFO mentioned, shot ourselves in the foot by removing aircrew from as many non-flying (but flying related) posts as possible. We are about to handover another 200 or so "flying branch" posts to other branches (not sure where they are going to find more people to fill them though). :ugh:

Just to nail this one and put it to bed...Roland and Camelspyder...I concur (ooh dejavu)

I'm not suggesting (and I don't think anybody else is either) that any outfit can cough up spare bodies...nobody has spare bodies these days.

I'm suggesting that sooner rather than later, the RN will be the only outfit in our military system capable of producing acoustics operators...in fact that may be the case already.

PA. I did. Only so long you can hold back!!
TOFO. you seem to have a very strong opinion of Seedcorn and the limitations thereof. I'm curious as to where you are getting your information

TOFO The RAF currently trains acoustics operators.

It is not only "patrol" required it is "attack" capability.
The Nimrod could carry a large variety of stores from depth charges to guided torpedos and even nuclear depth charges.
We have nothing similar other than helicopters, which can carry some attack stores, but do not have sufficient range.

@examined, and get 200 miles lightest in 30-40 minutes.

That I did not know, thanks for the info. More than happy to be corrected.

I don't know what you are fishing for. My information comes from the public domain, plus my expertise as ex kipper fleet man. Seedcorn's limitations are pretty clear are they not (the clue is in the name and how it came into being). If you are referring to it's lifespan...again, common sense I would say.

I might know some of the folks on it...then again, I might not ;)

But on a more significant note...it is nice to see that the discussion on the future prospects of restoring the MPA capability has moved away from the emotions of the MRA4 and, for the time being a least, silly season on the fanciful vehicles.

I have been pessimistic in the past...but never quite at zero percent so to speak. I am more optimistic now (for quite a few reasons, which need not detain us) but I still feel the costs and difficulties are being understated and with the UK "recovery" quite likely to go into a full stall shortly, I'm still hovering about the 50/50, we might, we might not.

but just to be clear - I want it back as much as any of you out there. I just don't indulge in wishful thinking.

@camelspyder
The RAF currently trains acoustics operators.


Are you saying we have the capability, or are actually training acoustic operators?

Exnomad
The air-dropped Depth Charge disappeared from the RAF inventory in the late '60s. The Nimrod never carried them.

I claim to be the last RAF pilot to drop a stick of Depth Charges, when in 1973 I was on an exchange tour in Australia flying the Lockheed Neptune.

SAAF Ysterplaat
 

Just been to see the SAAF Shack at Ysterplaat airbase in Cape Town. Shall I bring it home with me next week?


FORTITER IN RE. (Coincidentally the base motto, mirroring that of Maritime's finest.) That's 42 for our less knowledgeable readers!

Spock :ok:

Cough, cough, ahem, ahem:=

Yes & Yes...


but I was perhaps disingenuous...


since I did not specify the customer:)

Would it be worth a civilian operator just offering a platform like the P3 to the RAF on a retainer contract? Minimal cost, then when needed it can be flown by the operator, specialist crew in the back as required until mod make a decision on long term martime platform.

Oh really.....

Spock

42 - The answer to the ultimate question of Life, the Universe and Everything

42 - The pink torpedo Sqn.

I'll run the OMS/MCT/FMS/BAT.

B57 Nuclear Bomb
 

Mr Neptunus Rex sir, while the British atomic weapons may have disappeared from the RAF inventory in the late 60's ...

A brief google discovered this ...

"The B57 could be deployed by most U.S. fighter, bomber and Navy antisubmarine warfare and patrol aircraft (S-3 Viking and P-3 Orion), and by some U.S. Navy helicopters including the SH-3 Sea King. The B57 was also deployed with Canada's CF-104s in Germany, and the Royal Air Force's Nimrod from RAF St Mawgan and RAF Kinloss in the UK and Malta in the Mediterranean."

I seem to recall it being said that it would take a weapon of this type to crack the hull of some of the Titanium hulled boats we used to chase around after.

also,
there were a number of other weapon types available to be carried by Nimrod's but which were not used - like the sea mines, (the name of which escapes me for the moment)

HAS59, with respect, what N Rex said was perfectly correct.

Your opening statement was not. British nuclear weapons were available much later.

You mention sea mines; the Vulcan was also designed for mines but they are a very blunt weapon and can deny passage to own forces.

I should have read it twice ...
 

Thanks PN,

Yes he said "Air dropped depth charge"

I was referring to the Air Dropped Nuclear Depth Charge (B-57, US supplied for selected NATO allies)

I said " while the British atomic weapons may have disappeared ..." I wasn't saying that they had. It is well documented that the WE177 was around for quite a while after then, but surely not as a depth charge from fixed wing aircraft. (Although you have to feel for the poor souls delivering one from a Wasp!)

The Smart Mine available to the Nimrod was the Stonefish, not all that blunt an instrument as it is able to detect the acoustic signatures of passing ships to determine their validity as a target.

It would be interesting to speculate the range and types of weapon a Future UK Maritime Patrol Aircraft would carry.