If you have N C17 then they cost £X whether they fly or not.

If you need the capacity for less than 100% of the time then you are wasting money. What happens then is the aircraft are taken in to Reserve, ie spares, manpower and fuel are not provisioned.

If you reduce your holding then the cost of ownership will reduce. To then buy in occasional charter to make up for your smaller GOGO fleet then it has the potential to cost less.

Chartering for Herrick is a different ball game as it is effectively a whole-fleet charter rather than an occasional fleet make-up.

On the leasing of C17s, I believe originally it was for a specific period of time and a specific rate of usage, bit like your contract hire car. As Herrick ramped up so did the hours and the overrun leasing charges would have been greater than the option to buy.

If there is another C17 on the way, and after Herrick there is the extra capacity some have alluded to, what will happen with it? Has anyone bothered to consider what a multinational command, based in the south of the Netherlands is doing and maybe that the RAF has asperations in that direction....... Just saying.... :oh:

Or what price A400?

Given their position they certainly should do....

The question of use vs. cost is down to whichever theory of accounting MoD choose to use this week. One thing that's for certain, however, is that if UK9 is purchased with a total lack of support - eng & crew manning, spares for deployment, tooling etc - (as per UK7&8) then all that we're buying is an extremely expensive spares donor...

The capacity and abilities that it brings to the 'customer' makes it ripe for the future, especially so given uncertainties surrounding A400s development timeline and current issues.

You mean NATO's Heavy Airlift Wing and its Strategic Airlift Capability (SAC) program?

Scramble Messageboard ? Information

Hungary: U.S.-NATO Global Strategic Airlift Reaches Full Capability | Stop NATO...Opposition to global militarism

I'm sure at one point 181 at least was also reserved

Thats the HAW at Papa... Read my post again. :ok:

Wikipedia European Airlift Command. Based at Eindhoven.

What issues & uncertainties with the A400? Seems to be ticking along quite nicely to me! Should be on time (this time) if not early.
In terms of stuff the C17 currently does it should be ready to go from day 1.
(On a smaller scale of course!)

I believe that the current time line doesn't have A400 doing anything 'useful' until early 2016.

There are issues the FAF 5th aircraft has been rejected and will instead arrive with the RAF ahead of UK 1. The 9G restraint regulation is unproven as the attachment points are rated but Airbus can't answer the cargo bay floor question as the floor is untested.

As with all new aircraft, expect a bumpy road between ISD and IOC.

Makes me laugh - how many chained vehicle axles are tested to 9g? :ugh:

Er, why would the RAF Accept an A/C that the FAF had already rejected? I certainly wouldn't! Repair any anomaly and give it back to the French! :ugh:

I don't think there is actually something wrong with FAF 5, I just don't think they want it right now

Not entirely true Tonksy!

Depends how you define useful but there should be some route work going on at least in 2015.
The ac is at IOC at the mo.
Fortunately for us, the french are doing the painful stuff we had to do on the J with the entry into service and the ac should be more mature at SOC1/1.5 when
we get it delivered. Have faith fella!!

A400M Usefulness
 

Declaration of interest: yes I used to work for Airbus but I am now retired.

Firstly, the original lease of the 5 C17s came under the STSA (Short Term Strategic Airlift) programme which was, indeed a competition between the An124 and the C17. The An124 was deemed to be non-compliant because it had no defensive aids and, therefore, could not be used in hostile environments (except, of course, when it is being chartered). As STSA was a stopgap it was always meant to be a lease arrangement and it then grew from there.

When the first 3 RAF A400Ms arrive they will be at SOC 1 standard, SOC 1.5 for the next 5 with other standards following. SOC 1 includes tactical capability inc some airdrop, and some defensive aids. SOC 1.5 adds AAR receiving and the rest of AD. National defensive aids are a national problem and all ac will be uprated as subsequent SOCs are cleared on the Airbus Military clearance programme. That said the SOCs are company solutions and contractual obligations but actual release to service is in the gift of the infamous Quintequeue which also needs to clear the specific RAF AD equipment and aircraft combination. If my experience with the J is anything to go by that could take some time. However, do remember who it is actually granting release to service (or whatever it is now called) and it is not Airbus Military.

Presumably, we're purchasing it on behalf of Alex Salmond and the nascent Scottish Air Force.