Shy Torque

Are you some sort of Dope?:)

I used to know a Cpl Painter and Finisher who had been retired on medical grounds; not enough breath to complete the basic fitness test - or later, even to walk.

Turned out it was down to lung damage caused by exposure to isocyanates over many years, without sensible protection.

MoD refused compensation - wouldn't even pay for the essential wheel chair!

I don't know what she's doing now, but I hope she's OK.

Rgds SOS

I recall a story from the late 80's...

Fg Off Keen as Mustard, caught one of the painters doing some after work hours in the paint bay.

"Cpl Painter" he shouts "painting of private cars will cease forthwith in the painting bay, move it at once"

"Yes sir, No probs, Never again, cross my heart"

5 mins later, Fg Off Keen as Mustard phone ring's... "Good Morning, Fg Off Keen as Mustard"

"Ah Mustard, It's the Staish, You do realise that's my car in the paint bay, Cpl Painter is just touching it up for me"

Apparently, the Boss was doing a TR8 conversation and went to the painters (one used to work for Jaguar as a painter) and asked if they could do a paint job once he had finished the mechanics.

True, maybes, but with the gent concerned, it is more than a possibility.

That's quite a broad brush question... ;)

Serious question for those bemoaning this contractorisation of the RAF:

Why is there an objection to contractors doing this particular job?
I've not known an RAF painter and/ or finisher (genuinely) in my 22 years in the mob, every station I've worked on has had contracted painting services, so loss of this trade isn't a sudden thing by any means.

I've certainly never met an RAF painting tradesman deployed at Kabul, Basra, Baghdad etc, so what would the justification be for the service keeping this tasking as a military only role?

He couldn't be everywhere, he'd be spreading himself thinly if he was.

Just masking a bigger issue. The RAF's getting thinner. Airlines beckon.

Laarbruch 72,

I do not know what you've been reading on this thread but I believe that most, who note the passing of the trade, have had contact with RAF Painters and Dopers. For my part I first met these tradesmen at RAF Colerne 1971, where they did "Albert" in a very fetching brown and tan, with white flight deck roof. There followed Akrotiri, Vulcan second line painters, super finish, RAF College Cranwell where both JPs and Dominies received superb paint jobs. I well remember a transmitter oil leak on my next posting (Nimrod AEW), the silicone based oil, being hygroscopic led to the aircrafts paint lying on the hangar floor overnight. The painters not only put the paint back on it, but managed to degrease it to allow the phenomenon. Finally, and having vivid memories of it, the attempt by the Ground Engineers (all TG1) to paint the deployed 47SF C130s a particular brand of pink was not a great success. Had there been a professional RAF Painter and Finisher there the result could well have been much better. I am, by trade, an Airframe Fitter, but I do respect the support I and many others have received over the years of our careers from the "aircraft finishers". It's a shame that it appears you have not had the opportunity to experience an old and very useful trade.

Smudge

I suppose it is nostalgia from a can-do era. The days are gone of P&F's refinishing a piece of sqn memorabilia or doing the yard-arm because he thinks it's a bit tatty-looking. They would do it using the remnants from a few half finished tins at the back of a Thursday afternoon for a packet of hobnobs and an invite to the next beer-call. In the days of contractorisation it would be costed, then a business-case, then it's all too difficult.

I suppose its a bit like finding out you are going to land late and bribing the chef to knock-up a few sandwiches and put them behind reception for when you roll in at midnight. 'Of course Sir! Is ham and cheese ok?'

I suspect it just doesn't happen now. That said the Babcock boys in the paint bay at Kinloss were a dab hand at toe-caps and rusty bonnets.

Sad that some can't see what this actually means, and it isn't about the dopey painters.:uhoh:

Stretching the thread
 

This last Painter & Doper, that was demobbed from Akrotiri.

This could have happened to me, a long time ago.

But if I had chosen to take demob in Cyprus, I would have been responsible for my costs of getting my wife and I, and our kit, back to UK.

Being on an engagement of over 9 years, I had the option of spending my last 6 month at the 'station of my choice', as an aid to 'resettlement'. This meant one of a list of 3, if I was lucky.

Seeing as I asked for Marham, no problem, I got it :ok:

Would the painter have had to pay his own passage? Mind you with todays airfares it isn't the problem that it was in 1965.

Any moment now the poem: 'I'm the last man left in the air force' will reappear - always good value and never ceases to give me a smile. Interestingly, many of the places and planes referred to in the poem are already gone or soon will be.

You can put the wholesale contractorisation thing down to Margaret Thatcher, IMHO.

As PM, Mrs Thatcher's reforms made the case that ; 'civvies can't be trusted with important defence work, 'cause they could strike and cripple the armed forces' an obsolete argument. In general, many of these contracted schemes have worked well and in some of the cases where they haven't, it's because the contract was badly specified in the first place.

I'm not so sanguine about the success of the thousands of reserves idea, however!!

Old Duffer (a sort of reserve!!)

Then there was the first VC10K to be 'repainted' in France....

MoD had decided to save money on the repaint by sending it there. But then it was discovered that some of the old paint had been removed with a grinder, then several thick layers of new paint had been slapped on in an attempt to hide the evidence...:mad: From then on, the RAF decided that supervision was needed, so sent over some people who knew what to look for. Not easy when the work force are mostly Algerians being paid peanuts, with health and safety receiving a gallic shrug......:rolleyes:

Another penny-pinching measure was to get the aircraft repainted somewhere in Eastern Europe. That too turned out to be rather more lengthy and expensive than anticipated. A good deal for the ferry crews though!

The job used to be done at RAF St Athan and to a high standard. But the wretched beancounters just had to see if it could be outsourced.....:ugh:

Disk Grinders
 

Beagle, It was not only the Algerians in France who used disc grinders. the team at NMSU damaged a Nimrod with the same techniques in around 1994/5. At the time COSHH was flavour of the month with the need to reduce exposure to some of the nasty chemicals. (A good thing you must agree having seen SOSL post) Several skins required replacing by the BAe CWP.

On the whole I found these guys and gals a great bunch. yes they would work nights so the paint was dry in the morning. Some would even do fabric work when we needed a satchel to store stuff safely on the back of a crew seat.

Did some experiments using dry ice and plastic media to remove paint from dialectric panels having seen a feature on Tomorrows World post Raymond Baxter - Disastrous. But put a AEW Nimrod radome to good use rather than risk destroying the ones we had for the R in short supply.

I would imagine the Babcock crew were all Ex RAF painters. Who is going to train the future ones? I think this is true of most trades these days. can people form metal into complex shapes? I don't think they can these days. What we finish up with is box changers rather than repairers. But aircraft tend to be designed to be repaired thus.

GGR mentions Blacksmith Welders - Well I came across a few in the 80s. We even had to get one out of retirement to do a job on a Chinook. His Q for aircraft welding was still in date. Finding the means to pay him was difficult but he probably did the job for love like some of us would and still do.

O-D Your wish is my command:

The Unkindest Defence Cut of All

I’m the last man left in the Air Force,
I’ve an office in MOD
and a copy of Queens Regulations
which only apply to me.
I can post myself to Leuchars
and detach me from there to Kinloss,
or send me on courses to Innsworth,
then cancel the lot - I’m the boss.

I’m the last man left in the Air Force,
but the great Parliamentary brains
neglected, when cancelling people,
to sell off the Stations and planes.
The result is, my inventory bulges
with KD and camp-stools and Quarters,
plus a signed book of speeches by Trenchard
which I keep to impress the reporters.

I’m the last man left in the Air Force,
I suppose you imagine it’s great
to be master of all you survey, but
I tell you it’s difficult, mate.
I inspected three units last Thursday,
As C-in-C ( Acting ) of Strike,
then I swept half the runway at Laarbruch
and repaired Saxa Vord’s station bike.

I’m the last man left in the Air Force,
it’s not doing a lot for my health.
Unit sports days are frankly exhausting
when the Victor Ludorum’s oneself.
On guest nights the Mess is so lonely,
there are times when I wish I was able
to pass the port to the chap next to me,
without seeing it fall off the table.

I’m the last man left in the Air Force,
my wife says I’m never at home,
when I’m not flying Hercs, I’m at Manston,
laying gallons and gallons of foam,
or I’m in my Marine Craft off Plymouth,
shooting flares at the crowds on the Ho,
or I’m Orderly Corporal at Luqa.
It’s an interesting life, but all go.

I’m the last man left in the Air Force.
I’m ADC to the Queen,
I’m Duty Clerk at St. Mawgan,
I’m the RAF rugby team.
Tomorrow I’m painting a guardroom
and air-testing numerous planes.
The day after that I’m for London,
to preach at St. Clement Danes.

I’m the last man left in the Air force
and I’m due to go out before long.
There’s been no talk of any replacement
and I won’t even let me sign on.
I hope to enjoy my retirement.
I’ve put up a fairly good show,
and I won’t cut myself off entirely.
There are always reunions, you know.