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-   -   Here it comes: Syria (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/513470-here-comes-syria.html)

SASless 3rd Sep 2013 15:13

There you go again! Thinking.....gets you into trouble every time don't it.

Not 65 and not 12.

You can call Odumbo Obama if you wish.....I on the other hand shall call him what i wish.

We Americans have a habit of being short with authority figures as you may have learned over several hundred years of dealing with us.

We and the Aussies seem to share that trait.....I wonder why that is?

Must be we have something in common that brings that out in us.


But....whatever.....you have gained entrance into a not very select group.....the Peanut Gallery.....right next to Hanoi Jane.

Lonewolf_50 3rd Sep 2013 15:24


Originally Posted by Broadsword*** (Post 8028211)
And what of the unbenevolent despot, Dubya, who turned your country into a laughing stock? He's probably a hero, in your deranged Teaparty mind.

Sometimes, it is best to play the ball and not the man. ;)
As to President Obama and official utterances ...

During a meeting of congressional leaders at the White House, he said: "What we are envisioning is something limited. It is something proportional. It will degrade Assad's capabilities.
"At the same time we have a broader strategy that will allow us to upgrade
the capabilities of the opposition."
If you tell people your plan, they can begin defeating your plan. So, maybe, Mr President, you need to learn when to say less, and when not to say more. Like the "line in the sand" think he trapped himself with, he has committed himself and his nation to taking down Assad in favor of the opposition. Some have remarked (as the Chief Gunner's Mate a few pages back observed) that being Al Qaeda's air force isn't a role we ought to play. What he has just told us is that his course of action is likely to do just that, as the Al Q sorts have, so far, shown a capacity for action and focus that some of the other rebel groups have not.

While "Odumbo" is harsh, he isn't doing well at the moment.

500N 3rd Sep 2013 15:25

And just who is Obama to decide to bring down Assad's regime ?

And for what proper reason ?

Does he think he is God or something ?

500N 3rd Sep 2013 15:29

"If you tell people your plan, they can begin defeating your plan. So, maybe, Mr President, you need to learn when to say less, and not when to say more."

+ 10,000

The US military must love Obama.

Hell, it took Israel to have a big, bold plan to knock out Syria,
unless Obama blankets EVERY Airfield and EVERY Military
installation - which isn't already dispersed thanks to his warning
- he has buckleys chance IMHO.

OK, a few sites but I can bet that Assadd has been doing this
long enough to know WTF he is doing.

Lonewolf_50 3rd Sep 2013 15:40


And just who is Obama to decide to bring down Assad's regime? And for what proper reason? Does he think he is God or something?
Who knows what he really thinks?
Oprah Winfrey called him "the One" back in his initial primary run, a not too veiled reference to a Messiah, even a Black Messiah. (Any number of conservative opponents have turned this element of early popular support into a sarcastic reference to him as "Messiah," but I don't recall his campaign ever adopting that theme. )

Kinks for some of my feelings on black messiah's ...

Some thoughts from the news and comments lately. President Assad is, like President Obama, talking smack. Seems to be popular of late:

Originally Posted by B Assad
Referring to two of the U.S.'s fiercest enemies, Assad warned that "nobody would be able to separate Syria's interests from those of Hezbollah and Iran. Today regional stability depends on the situation in Syria."
"Russia is aware of this," he said, suggesting that a U.S. attack could draw
Moscow into the fighting.

He wishes.
Not seeing it.

500N 3rd Sep 2013 15:45

That's the other thing.

Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, but why take on Syria when you know
full well that Russia will be involved and backing Assad.

Broadsword*** 3rd Sep 2013 15:58


If you tell people your plan, they can begin defeating your plan. So, maybe, Mr President, you need to learn when to say less, and when not to say more. Like the "line in the sand" think he trapped himself with, he has committed himself and his nation to taking down Assad in favor of the opposition.
Do you think issuing an unequivocal public warning to someone whom you suspect is about to use chemical weapons is a bad thing? I think any president (Democrat or Republican) worth his salt would have done the same. If we (the international community) do not make a stand on this, one of the worst breaches of international law in recent history, we will surely be setting a chilling precedent for all wars to come.

I cannot put it better than Lord Ashdown did:

"Seventy-seven years ago the League of Nations, the UN’s predecessor, faced a crisis.


Italy, flagrantly breaching international law, invaded Abyssinia. The League failed to act because Germany and Japan effectively vetoed it. From that moment, the League ceased to exist as an effective institution and was put out of its misery in 1939. Prime Minister Baldwin told the Commons, the League “failed ultimately because of the reluctance of… nations… to proceed to… military sanctions”.


What has happened in Damascus is a challenge to our humanity. It is also a challenge to our system of international law.


If the international community will not now find the means to make it clear that we will not tolerate the use of weapons of mass destruction, like poison gas, for the mass murder of innocent citizens, then the fragile structures of international law that we have painfully erected these last twenty years will be undermined, and the threat of the future use of weapons of mass destruction will be widened."

500N 3rd Sep 2013 16:02

"It is also a challenge to our system of international law. "


A system of law that the US doesn't always follow.

It doesn't recognise the ICC for a start.

Eclectic 3rd Sep 2013 16:25

Akritiri.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BS3gNFaIIAA8bbB.jpg

2x USAF U2s
2X French Navy Atlantique2 Maritime Surveillance & SIGINT
2X Tristars, 1X A-330, 1X Voyager, 1X E-3 Sentry, 6X Typhoons, 1X BAE 146

Fun and games: BREAKING: British Typhoons in near clash with Turkish jets over Cyprus

British and Turkish fighter planes nearly clashed over the skies of Cyprus yesterday after two Typhoon Eurofighters scrambled from Akrotiri airbase.

Details remain unclear, but informed sources said the Typhoons, which are part of a total of six aircraft sent to the RAF Akrotiri airbase for possible actions against Syria, flew over the Turkish occupied part of Cyprus to intercept unidentified planes.

According to reports, Turkey sent two F-16 fighters to intercept the British planes claiming they violated the airspace over the occupied part of Cyprus.

glad rag 3rd Sep 2013 16:46

Not
Able
To
Organise

glad rag 3rd Sep 2013 16:48

Hell no, we won't go!
 
Troops Are Posting Photos In Protest Of Syrian Intervention - Business Insider

Actually they have an extremely valid point, one that seems to have escaped POTUS.:ugh:

Wallah 3rd Sep 2013 17:32

As somebody who is still in, albeit following the vote in parliament, one who is going to play bugger all part in whatever unfolds in the next few weeks, I agree whole heartedly with the sentiment expressed by Broadsword at post #990. If I was ordered to, I would happily go.

I think we have a morale duty to take action against regimes that openly use WMD against innocent civilians. Not to do so is cowardice of the worst sort.

To be clear, I have no love for either the rebels or Assad's regime; I do not think that we should intervene to 'tip the balance', but we cannot let this go by the wayside.

SASless 3rd Sep 2013 17:33

This is how bad our Political Leadership is in my country!

I called my two Senator's Offices this morning....and the Republican said the phone is ringing off the hook soldily opposing any action whatsoever.

The Democrat waffled all over the place would not say what the call volume or opinion split was.....which tells me the same thing is happening as it goes against the Liberal seahunt's staunch support of Odumbo.

If the Republican Speaker of the House is going to support taking action....he damn sure is not a Poltician with cojones.

Just on partisan party politics this situation screams for the Republicans to cut Obama off at the knees by refusing to authorize a military strike. That throws the Hot Potato right back smack into Odumbo's Lap where it was before he threw it over to Congress.

On so many other levels it demands a "No" vote as well.

Our GOP Leadership are just flat incompetent......or terrified of taking a stand....I would have said "drawing a red line in the sand" but that would be a poor choice of words....as Odumbo found out!

500N 3rd Sep 2013 17:38

Which ever way Congress vote, Obama has still shown his weak hand
to everyone in the world.

IMHO, most of the damage has been done.

Eclectic 3rd Sep 2013 17:49

This morning's fun:
Israel Tests a new Target Missile Simulating Iranian Shihab 3 Missiles - Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News

Israel’s missile defense organization (IMDO) and the U.S. Missile Defense Agency (MDA) completed today a successful flight test of the Silver Sparrow, the latest, most advanced version of the Sparrow target missile family. The test, conducted at the Israeli test range over the Eastern Mediterranean Sea was the first test flight of the new missile.

The missile was launched from an airborne platform on 9:15, after an ascent the missile entered the trajectory, in according with the test plan. Through its flight the Silver Sparrow was tracked by the Arrow Weapon System’s Super Green Pine radar, which transferred the information to the Citron Tree Battle Management Control System. According to the IMOD announcement, all the elements of the system performed according to their operational configuration.

The Silver Sparrow developed by RAFAEL is an advanced version of the Sparrow air-launched ballistic target missile’. The Sparrow targets have a modular warhead section carrying different payloads such as inert, high explosive or water. The 27.5 (8.39 mw) long missile weighs over three tons and is designed to simulate Shihab 3 class missiles (Iranian ballistic missiles with 1,500-2,000 km range). The new target is an essential segment in the testing of the Arrow-3 exo-atmospheric interceptor........more

John Farley 3rd Sep 2013 18:12

Looking back over the last 30 years I think it possible that if no country in the world ever interefered in any other country's civil war fewer people might be killed and injured overall.

The trouble with interfering (however clear the reason) is that it is bound to increase the weapons used in the particular war.

We shall never know of course.

Broadsword*** 3rd Sep 2013 18:14

Syria crisis: Republican leader John Boehner backs Barack Obama over attack plan
 
Good to see a cross-party consensus starting to emerge.

Syria crisis: Republican leader John Boehner backs Barack Obama over attack plan - Telegraph

Pontius Navigator 3rd Sep 2013 18:28


Originally Posted by Eclectic (Post 8028367)
2X French Navy Atlantique2 Maritime Surveillance & SIGINT

Well that sort of answers my CENTO question about French rights at Akrotiri, unless of course it is a bilateral agreement with our allies to cover our MPA holiday.

NutLoose 3rd Sep 2013 18:28

Suprised the Ruskies are not intervening.

Lonewolf_50 3rd Sep 2013 18:35


Originally Posted by Broadsword*** (Post 8028315)
Do you think issuing an unequivocal public warning to someone whom you suspect is about to use chemical weapons is a bad thing?

What has that to do with my observation of, the warning having been issued last year, telling someone what your plan details are is stupid. "We intend to hurt you, but not very much:" That's the message being sent by intentions of limited strikes. Sorry, that's stupid. You may recall that limited strikes on Saddam during the 90's regarding his various misdeed in re UNSCRs did **** all to get him to change his course.

As to warning and threatening ... and then not backing it up, it does make one look quite the fool. I suspect you agree.

I don't need you to lecture me on Ethiopia and the Italians: I was fully aware of that in grade school, and have noted on this forum and others the parallels. While an Imperial expansion and a civil are are two different things, the impotence of international bodies seems to be "the same old thing."

I think that in re LoN and UN you and I agree.

I saw Secretary Kerry try to call what's up coming with Syria a "Munich" moment.

He's wrong.

Hitler's Germany was a Major Power.
Syria? Not quite.

His sense of scale is way off. Syria is more like Czechoslovakia, then, or Poland, or Austria, or even Spain ...

The Powers are not about to face off with each other just yet.


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