Random Alcohol Breath Testing for the RN
 

I see in todays Torygraph that "RN Commanding officers will be given equipment to enable spot checks to be carried out to ensure sailors are not reporting for duty drunk". I wonder if this will become a pan defence policy? Surely it has merit when you consider the state some of those working on aircraft and 'crewing in' down route and 'on det' turn in for duty especially when there is less supervision away from hombase. Albeit the minority I might add.

There still pervades in the minority the belief that this is all part of service life; it certainly was a few years ago and I was as guilty as anyone. However, in todays post Haddon Cave environment surely it wouldnt be too hard to tweak the CDT teams to also test for alcohol on personnel.

I for one would welcome it.

We have had post-incident drug and alcohol testing in the RAF for years and the net is thrown quite wide to include support staff, ATC etc. Mil crews are also subject to overseas random testing too. I for one have been test in the USA and it gets your attention when it happens.

It's not random testing that's being introduced but will be an option for confirming the suspicion of being unfit for duties due to alcohol and included in the Armed Forces Act, so will be pan-defence. The limiits are going to be more widely briefed soon but are in line with UK Drink-drive laws for non-safety critical duties and "effectively zero" for safety critical (inc aircrew, ATC & engineers) personnel.

Sounds like a reasonable policy.

Policy incorporated into law ok, but what are the guidelines about consequences?

Great policy, pity it won't be used on benefit spongers before they claim their weekly beer tokens from the taxpayer.

IIRC the AFA only required for an officer to charge someone with being drunk. This was years before drink-driving or breathalysers. Clearly there were margins for error and probably erring on the too lenient rather than the too strict.

Has that now changed?

It's come about post-ASTUTE shooting. The man who shot the WEO was still over the limit (or very near to it) when he signed for his rifle. It's quite hard to determine, as Officer of the Day, the morning after is someone is over the limit or under it.

As someone who will be affected by this, I can only approve to be honest.

IIRC, "He was unsteady on his feet, his breath smelled of alcohol and his speech was slurred. Sir, he was drunk"

In the ARA (in the 1960s), the officer or NCO had to decide on the basis of the suspect's actions and appearance, whether someone should be charged with drunkenness. He would later be required to present this as evidence, usually in the form quoted above. He was specifically prohibited from applying a test or asking the 'suspect' to perform any action to determine his sobriety.

Entirely reasonable.If you work with bombs and bullets you really should be sober.

Shouldn't you ?

Another nail in the coffin of morale in that all events involving alcohol I.e. Thursday bops, exchange drinks, games nights and mess functions will have to move to the weekends where no-one will go to them. I'm not advocating people turning up drunk for duty however if a level of zero alcohol. in the blood stream is used for critical staff then it in effect introduces a drinking ban for them mon-fri or any other flying days and as we all know in the interests of fairness we'll all get tarred with the same brush.

It's akin to banning chips, chinagraph and bodge tape! How will the the forces continue to function?? :}

When the Biggin Hill OM beanstealing blunties tried to move dining-in nights from Fridays to Thursdays, so that they could leg it home with their hangovers at Friday lunchtimes, they'd forgotten about the relatively large number of us who, although undergoing aircrew reselection, were still mess members.....with voting rights.

So, when it was put to the vote at an extraordinary mess meeting, the beanstealers lost and dining-in nights continued to be held on Fridays...:ok:

I once had an Annual Medical the morning after the medical centre's midweek Christmas function. The quack was clearly suffering; he reeked of stale booze and was sweating like a pig. So when it came to the usual question "How much do you drink in a week?", I simply replied "A damn sight less than you did last night!".....

No reason for mid-week functions to end. It just means people will need to exercise self-discipline.

The old "I only have fun when I'm pissed excuse".

Trust me - it's not true.

An average male starting at 19.00 can have two pints, two glasses of wine and two singles of spirits and be completely clear of alcohol by 07.00 the following morning.

Most professional civilians don't drink all that much mid-week. A lot I know just have a glass of wine with their evening meal, if that. There's no reason why people in uniform should be any different.

Yet another, predictable, knee jerk response to a less than once a Preston Guild incident. As Beagle said, the real key is self discipline.

So you can turn to after extended watches/duties (or, otherwise, little sleep from having a real life off duty) totally knackerd, so long as you're stone cold sober?

You and BEagle are right the real key is self discipline; shouldn't drink too much. Trouble is, after too many sherbets, self discipline tends to wane.

Then his or her buddies really should look after him or her for everyone's sake. Doesn't always happen.

I remember a General Court Martial, yonks ago, where a regiment gunner came off duty, had a fight with his girlfriend and then got absolutely arxxholed.

His weapons authorisation chit had 4 hours to go and so he went to the armoury and drew a 9 mm Browning and some ammo. His buddies in the Armoury ignored the fact that he could hardly stand up and issued the stuff anyway; because his chit was still current!

He then went on a rampage across the station. Eventually he was persuaded to hand over his weapon by a very courageous Sgt rock.

He went down for 4 1/2 years in civvy prison, for firearm offences and threats to kill - but it all wouldn't have happened if the armourers had said "no you're too pissed - go back to the block and get some rest".

Rgds SOS

Self Discipline
 

The self discipline argument is flawed byt he actions of those who get on a bender on a monday nt are still in the bar at 0200, have met brief at 0830 and are at their desk, on the hangar floor or in a cockpit that morning....it still happens and I saw it happen no less than a month ago in Oxfordshire. Drts are even worse for a complete ack of self discipline, we all know that and still see it. When you try to remonstrate down or up the CoC it goes something like, 'look we will just put him on admin duties, no he hasnt worked on any aircraft this morning but yes he is still in work, hey do you really want to push this and ruin his career. I still remeber the ginger beer refusing to man the start of an aircraft as he believed the aircrew were unfit to fly......but that was in 2007.

The fact that iaw the AFA you can now request a breath test of an individual at work then I am all in favour of it and it wont hit morale, it hasnt in the ATC world and they are to my mind the most observant of the regs regarding alcohol.

The morale argument doesnt wash, the self discipline argument doesnt wash and I for one am glad that if he/she reports for duty, reeks of alcohol he can be random breath tested then the dangerous part of what we do might become a little safer.

Shouldn't you get one on applying to join the Andrew?

:E

I've been trying to find a report written in c2008, possibly by KCL, highlighting the extent of 'problem drinking' in the Navy. The percentage figures of those who regularly get blind driunk (which I won't try to recall) were simply staggering.

Echoing other posts, friends of mine in the City generally confine drinking almost exclusively to Friday and Saturday nights. Turning up for work 'worse for wear' is one step closer to being sacked these days.