Would anyone like to share any stories about Group Captain Joe Sim
 

"In peace we train for war..don't forget it"!, Joe was an old boy from my school (QVS, Dunblane), but even though I served under him for a short time, I never knew it.

Another old boy from class of '58, who sat next to Joe in school (I was class of '80 so a young whippersnapper), wrote that he worked in Eng/Ops Bruggen 78-82 and Joe walked past him at prayers every day and never said a word to him.

What I do recall as a JO, was that he had a fearsome reputation and was a very accomplished pilot (although the aforementioned old boy, recently posted a photo of Joe as a young Javelin Nav in 1962 before he converted).

I only knew the mature Joe and understand that people change as they get older (don't worry AVM Bagwell, your RAFH Wegberg nurses parties secrets are safe with me :-), and would like to fill in the gaps between our school archive photos and the fearsome station commander !

Also would be interesting to understand what became of him post Bruggen (no hits at all on google)...I don't believe that he is with us any more.

Would like to share any interesting stories on our old school website,I believe that they need to know more than they do about one of their accomplished old boys...

Thanks for sharing if you can..

Tried to kill me - was Stn Cdr at Stanley and hence Stn Cdr-elect for RAF Mount Pleasant. JS came on a visit and wanted to be shown round the airfield. I suggested I should drive but he insisted that he drive "his" LWB. Thirty seconds later I thought I was about to die as he turned right without indicating, across the bows of a 40 ton earth mover doing warp 9. Shaken, he pulled up and suggested I drive for the rest of the visit. mind you, he did give me a good write-up at the end of my time down there,

Oh Boy......!

OAP

thought about it but best not................

Thats what I was afraid of....QVS in my day 1974-80...was a fairly emotionally restricted environment...god know what it was like in the 50's

Even my own leadership style has been fairly (or perhaps unfairly) robust from time to time due to that background.

Will not be offended by candour..nor will my schoolmates ...we all understand what made us after all.

rmac

RAF College Cranwell 79 Entry "A" Squadron (Sep 1958 -Aug 1961) ?

If he joined as a pilot, he will have moved either to 80 Entry or to ANS Thorney Island to graduate as a navigator.

As I understand, he flew initially as a navigator and then "converted" to pilot. Don't know if that was a second bite at the cherry or he started out as a Nav in the first place. But thanks for the info risbutler

Heck, that was a lucky near-miss - could have been my "senior entry" if I had gone to Cranditz a little earlier - same squadron as well!

Sadly true. I have no details, but understand that Joe died in a car accident, possibly in Scotland, at a guess about 10-15 years back.

Joe did at least one tour as a Javelin nav. I knew him on 1(F)Sqn at West Raynham at the end of the Hunter days - that was his first tour as a pilot. We used to go to El Adem in the pre-Gaddafi days of Libya for APCs. Joe's wife was Italian, and I believe her father had served there in the Italian Air Force back in the 30s when Cyrenaica was an Italian colony.

Joe Sim was my flight commander on 20 Sqn Harriers at Wildenrath 72-74.

Yes, he started as a Javelin Nav and then saw the light and converted to pilot. I flew a night supervisory sortie with him in a two-seat Harrier when we acted as a target for a Lightning intercept. He used his Javelin Nav experience to talk me through a series of gentle weaving turns to completely screw up the radar intercept!! I know - it beggars belief to think that a Lightning pilot could make a mess of an intercept - but hey-ho - Navs do have their uses!!

I think he was on Hunters with 1(F) when they converted to Harrier, before going to 20 on promotion to sqn ldr.

We later served together at Bruggen in early 78 on Jaguars when he was, I think, OC 14.

He was a very good pilot, and had a great sense of humour after a few beers, but he was otherwise a professional and serious operator. His favourite ditty was singing a song about "footprints on the dashboard upside down"!! But not when his wife (Alma??) was within hearing distance!! He played something in the 20 Sqn Pilots' Band - but I cannot remember what. Might have been the drums??

He did a tour at Binnsworth as desk officer for fast-jet pilots.

After retirement - as an Air Cdre?? - I think he set himself up as a consultant head-hunting candidates for high-profile jobs.

If he is not deceased he might be one on this link Search for People, Businesses and Places - 192.com
However, none of the given ages fit.

I, too, had heard that Joe had died some time ago, but I am not aware of the circumstances.

Thanks for that information Bomber H. Classic QVS profile, professional and serious...until after a couple of beers..

I'll tell you a tale.

When Gp Capt Joe Sim was converting to the Tornado prior to assuming command of Brüggen, his Tornado course at Cottesmore included a young German called Josef Gonscharek. In the very early days of groundschool, Joe Sim was positioned in the front row, while Josef Gonscharek was seated in the second row, just behind the good group captian.

Now, students were encouraged to write their 'callsign' on the name plate on their desk. The group captain declined to do so, but Hptm Gonscharek was very happy to admit to his long-standing (and predictable) handle of 'Gonzo'.

Those of you who knew Joe Sim will by now have made the connection. But for those of you who did not make his acquaintance, you need to know that Joe had a rather large -and very red - proboscis. Behind his back he too had been known as 'Gonzo' for some time. But this fact was not well known amongst the instructor community at Cottesmore (two thirds of them were German/Italian of course, so not so surprising).

So during one of the early groundschool lectures, the instructor was putting the GIT (Ground Instructional Technique) course to good effect and was applying the pose, pause, pounce strategy to reinforce his teaching. So, it went something like this:

"So gentlemen, who remembers the purpose of the Monopulse Resolution Improvement function .........................................? Gonzo!"

Now the line of sight between the instructor and Hptm Gonscharek passed just over Joe Sim's left ear. Before the young Gonzo had a chance to react, Gonzo the elder rose an inch or too out of his seat, quivered slightly, and his nose took on a distinctly darker shade of vermillion. But realizing eventually that the question was not directed at him, but at the young German sitting behind, he subsided back into a slightly slumped seating position.

The instructor, never one to miss an opportunity, realized that he might be onto something, so just before the coffee break he fired another question at young Gonscharek. Sure enough, the same reaction was achieved from the senior occupant of the front row.

Being fairly sure of his ground, the instructor dashed off to the instructor's coffee room (and bar), and passed on this valuable snippet. Poor Hptm Gonscharek thus went on to receive far more than his fair share of questions from the front of the room - and not once did the gambit fail. Even after four weeks it was still getting the desired reaction from the front row.

Joe Sim was indeed a drummer. I remember a jazz lunch in the Mess at Brüggen when he took over the band's kit. It was a very creditable performance.

Cracking story Tigger...there is one like that closer to home in my family...

During the early sixties my father was a Company Sergeant Major in the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles)..and like all of the type in those days had what would now be known as an "anger management problem". The jocks nick-named him "the moon" behind his back and used a well known song of the day "I see the moon, the moon sees me", whistled or sung, as a warning signal that the CSM was about.

It worked well until he upset my mum one day and she retorted "no wonder the jocks call you "the moon""

The very same evening there were a couple of unlucky jocks found to be singing the aforementioned song in the corridor as their CSM was doing the rounds...and what couldn't be aimed at mum...they took straight on the chin..poor buggers.

Now that he is 79, I can report that he is laid back and calm, oh about 90% of the time...which is an improvement :-)

I will be reproducing an edited version of some of the information offered about Joe on our school facebook page, where there are some recently posted photos of Joe as a senior schoolboy and a junior Javelin Nav, so please add if you have any more.

Thanks

rmac

A long time ago, in another life, Joe was posted in as the new station commander. Now myself and another officer called Mulldoon had previous experience of Joe so sometime into the Friday happy hour we decided it would be a nice idea if we two went round to welcome Joe and Alma to their new home! Do not recall whose idea it was but it seemed like a good idea at the time!!

So we stagger through the woods and knock on the door. The door opens and there is Joe who instantly ushers us into the newly carpeted sitting room. Alma then appears with a nice bottle of port, a present from the previous occupant and the only booze in the house. Well they had only been in the house a couple of hours at this stage!

They both seemed pleased to see us and were glad we had made the effort to pop round and welcome them back to Bruggen. About this time Mulldoon, having sunk a couple of glasses of port, proceeded to spill his port all over the new carpet! Time to go methinks and we rush to make a quick exit!

Back in the bar, we decide it was a complete error of judgement and we better be prepared for the worst on Monday morning!

Monday arrives and we creep into the Squadron and try to hide! Next minute the tannoy requests Newt and Mulldoon to attend the PBF!! Oh dear, the worst has happened. In we go to be met by the Boss!

"Well chaps, I hear you were round at the Station Commanders on Friday night?" Before we could begin to offer flowers and an apology he continued! "I was there on Saturday night with the other wheels and Alma was very impressed that you two had been to welcome them to their new home"

No mention of port or carpets! Phew! That was a lucky escape! So Joe did have a heart afterall!! Or maybe he was going to replace the new carpets anyway!

Quick digression on visits to the boss's house - in this case, mine. "Situation" - some will recall that 20 something years ago a fairly good Rugby player named Underwood was a pilot on 100 Sqn. Hence the following exchange on my MQ front door step one evening.

Door bell rings and reveals young fg off from my Wing who is about 6'2" - to my nearly 3-year old who joined me at the door he must have looked like a giant. Rugby mad small boy to large man at the door - "Are you Rory Underwood?" Response, quick as a flash - "No, but I wish I was". Happy days.

Are we talking about the same Joe Sim of whom I am thinking?

aka "Gonzo"

LM, call the nurse,have your medication,then get her to read you POST#14..

Nurse has gone to work mate. :\