SF ... Here you go :ok:

Image Posting Guide

Best ...

Coff.

Have a Happy Christmas LM ... good to see you around on here again – looks like our petitioning worked :ok:


...and LM you might like to see this thread from UKAR.... :)
View topic - Ghosts of Binbrook Past

He was only given a week's peeling spuds.

We were not called "Fast Jet Pilots" in those days - we were "Fighter Pilots".

Cool. Very cool.

LM ... Ref my post at #27 ... Mrs Coff allowed a spot of mild surfing this afternoon ... where I came across what appears to be a bit of corroboration on the Pete Stone "Med Bang" :}

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5477c700.jpg

Extracted from the Thunder and Lightnings Web Site (visitors comments)


Best ...

Coff.

Nice one mate.

Welcome back!

Surprised to hear the Lightning was limited to 650IAS, the Tornado F3 was quicker (750 I think?) until they discovered that the boys were enjoying this facility too often and the engines were falling out...

You're talking late 50s/early 60s technology.

The F4 was older technology than that, but we had a limit of 750KIAS & could legitimately squeeze that up to 810 in Alpha config, albeit in a very small corner of the flight envelope. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/thumbs.gif

- stick the emergency ground egress kit on (aka a probe) and it was 625 from memory. Not that anyone..........................

I have a feeling that Maggott was the best Lightning pilot in the world.. at least that's what he used to tell those lovely tartan-clad lassies...

Think the F3 was 800kts. Willing to be told otherwise.

I was on Concorde once (never name drop, Elton told me that) and asked to visit the sharp end where I was surprised to see Vne was 530kts. I didn't expect it to be that high. Shows how advanced that bit of kit was. I remember the atmospheric conditions were such that we were cruising higher than normal and topped out at 60,000' and Mach 2.02 while sipping a beautiful Lanson Noble and eating strawberries and cream.What an aircraft.

I recall that the Tornado F3 was 810 kts KIAS when we started, but very quickly the engineers stopped that. The jet would jet up to that speed at 250 ft level.

In a previous life I flew the mighty F4. Despite all off it's limitations the Brit F4 was fast,very fast. As a JP on one of my first exercises I did a high speed stern on some USAF F4s who were doing 480kts at low level. In full AB doing a slack decending turn the speed got a little high. As I glanced inside I noticed we were a good bit over 800 kts, and that was with the Sgt Fletchers on. Yes, and before you ask, the tanks stayed on.

If you went subsonic from supersonic did the F4M tuck? I remember at Coningsby, would have been around '76 an OCU stude pulled about 10G, blacked out and the USAF nav instructor in the back flew it until the pilot recovered. Luckily it was a twin sticker. The a/c was a bit bent...

Talking to the nav later he said that they had gone subsonic and tucked in, he was waiting for it whereas stude wasn't.

'Mach tuck' was one of the FGR2's handling characteristics.

great photo thread for ex lightning crew
 

View topic - More of Leconfields Lightning days

Hope link works ok?

Regards

Phantomstreaker

The Phantom was very sensative in pitch. It took a while for any pilot to get used to. It became obvious during AAR and at low level. In the USAF we did a low level accel and slow down to demonstrate the effects of pitchup and pitch down. 200kts to 600kts in full Afterburner and then idle/idle A/B and slow down. If a stude started to PIO you would only get 2 reversals to take control of you would be another hole in the desert floor.

I take it it was very interesting if you lost the pitch stab aug then....

Phantomstreaker

Luuuuuvvvverly!

Just getting some tissues for me eyes.....

None of that nonsense with the Lightning.

Absolutely - hurrah for British design expertise! Just a modest tuck, otherwise only the Machmeter to tell you (and the phone call from the Stn Cdr.................)

I have posted this before but the memory is still vivid. During the early1970s, while stationed at RAF Lakenheath flying Phantoms, I got the opportunity for one flight in the Lightning at RAF Coltshall. This was of course a two seat version and unfortunately I don’t remember the assigned squadron. The thing I remember most was the excellent handling qualities of the aircraft compared to the Phantom especially in pitch. A very shot legged aircraft, however, and it seemed like we were out of gas just after we got airborne. This led to the reputation that Coltshall had among our pilots as a great place to divert to when the weather was really nasty as the GCA lads there were outstanding in their craft. We assumed that was because the Lightings were always short on fuel and couldn’t make very many missed approaches.

Question for the Lightning pilots here – what was the aircraft handling qualities like when the over-wing tanks were installed??

Quite g limited, especially when full - airliner type g I recall. Otherwise they killed the look-out! I don't remember any adverse yaw effects.

It sure would have been, but never lost one. Switched them off intentionally to demonstrate how it flies though to students and to frighten some tailgunners.

To put the pitch sensitivity of the phantom in the correct ligth i like to add to the discussion. Different phantom types behaved differently, and the fuel loading and external loads had an distict effct on pitch sensibility. The F4-F had a tank 5/6 lockout switch, when used those tanks stayed dry and the pitch sensibility was history. In types where this feature was not available proper fuel management with the transfer switches could prevent any pitch problem.

The mach tuck had nothing to do with the basic aerodynamic layout and was not present in one g flight. It was a problem of the artificial feel system. In supersonic flight the feel system created a very heavy stick affording some force to change the pitch, a lot more than in the subsonic region. Therefore when decelerating from supersonic / transsonic while applying g´s the fore mentioned stick force lighting led to an increased g load for a given identical stick force applied.

Nothing an expierienced phantom driver couldn´t handle on an average day.

I´m not familiar with the spey phantoms though, only flew the F-4E / F4F, RF-4C, RF-4E types.


Keep the stories coming, you lightning mates!

franzl

I seem to remember the F4M had a tank 7 lockout. As I recall this was used when they were ferried away for service totally clean, otherwise you had to have two concrete Sparrows on the front stations to keep CG in limits.

When the Lightning was on it's rundown in '88 we had little to do so my boss sent me across to North Coates (funnily enough I flew into there not long ago, just a grass strip now) where for some reason they had a massive video library. North Coates was a SAM site. I cobbled together all of the Lighning vids I could find, most of which weren't in the best condition and made a master vid but I don't think anyone ever saw it apart from me. I transferred it onto DVD last year for the Lightning preservation group at Bruntingthorpe along with an interesting USAF vid from around 1960 called 'Weapons effects' which has some glorious old jets on it.

- indeed, and as an ex Lightning and Harrier driver I have the feeling WE definitely own this forum right now:ok:

BOAC ... that's guaranteed to wind up the WIWOP community :ok:

Yes, but you wouldn't want to admit to it in public, would you............:)

Was that the famous (and much appreciated) 'TAC Weapons Effect' film, which also features clips from the target itself - watching those Zuni rockets coming straight towards the camera was....interesting. The F-100 (?) which had to be abandoned after a premature detonation was also caught on camera.

Pah - enough of mud-moving! If you've got to move mud, do it with a bucket of sun and have done with it!

Indeed! I recall doing a Mixed Fighter Farce CAP in an F-4 with Porky P*** in a Lightning. Join CAP, a couple of turns around the CAP and Porky was off to find a tanker!

...after a premature detonation was also caught on camera.

That's the problem when you're making a porno film..... :E

Thanks ORAC ... :D

"Great Britain was slow in getting in to super sonic ..." How very dare that man" :=

I take it that was an old Meatbox that got splashed ?

It was indeed, along with suitably stirring martial music and a Hollywood style voiceover.

Nice bit of film, ORAC - brings a lump to my err throat. Ah! The B-scope. Anyone know of a flt sim module?

PS Where did he pick up the missiles after refuelling?

PPS A bit late on the breakaway, Hoskins.

Great stuff!! Bet the boys down the back had an exciting time during the rotation takeoffs at Farnborough!:ok::ok:

At about 3.26 or so it appears to show a gun firing from the top of the nose?

Top guns fitted to early marks. You could also fit a gun pack instead of the missile pack and get 4 Aden cannon on board!! Great fun to fire but the vibration could cause problems!!:ok:

...and the cordite fumes in a Hunter cockpit!

Had to tape down the RH console circuit breakers on a 4-gun shoot.

Not surprised at that! Whoever designed that daft location for CBs, which required a shoulder-dislocating struggle and a deftness of touch like James Herriot halfway up a cow's arse should be taken outside and given a firm talking-to!

Never fired more than 1 Aden in the Hunter - but the old hands said that the noise, vibration and general fury when firing all 4 was somewhat spectacular; however, the resulting tripped CBs and double transfer failure were rather less welcome.

- yes 'standard' fit, but the a/c missile stubs are empty and he manages to 'loose' a Firesqueak - 0/10 for the continuity girl.(lovely legs, though....)

4 cannon - I believe fillings used to loosen in the teeth too, and they tell me the 'pussy cat' used to go backwards.:)

The "Full War Load" day at the end of the El Adem APC was always worthwhile.

Firing out 540 rounds of 30mm ( you had to start firing "a little out of range"), followed by 8 x SAP headed 3-inch drains in ripple made your hair stand on end.
Happy days indeed !

Notwithstanding the CB's and double transfer hiccups