71 years ago today...
 

A sad anniversary today. 71 - (and not 70, as I originally stated) - years to the day since the loss of HMS 'Repulse' and HMS 'Prince of Wales' off the east coast of the Malay Peninsula.

After that day, (and despite much earlier evidence already proving the point), even the most skeptical observers had to accept that capital ships without air cover had no future afloat.

Looking at the state of things today in a couple of navies I can think of, some might be tempted to ask what lessons have been remembered 70 years later?

There was an excellent programme on Channel 4 last about the loss of HMS Hood. I recall that the programme mentioned that HMS Prince of Wales was there also.

I don't know about today but in the sixties at the right tide you could still see the formast of one of them sticking out of the water.

Edited to add.
Looking at Wiki it seems to be the Repulse's mast that is or used to stick up above the sea.

It is actually 71 years today- they were sunk in 1941.

My memory is also playing tricks - I think we used to be able to see one of the masts from the Herc in 68/9?

That terrorists don't operate large fleets of twin-piston bombers?

Surprising if true as the both capsized and lie inverted.

There is not now and never has been any part of either ship showing above water, it's deeper than that, but not so deep that you can't see the outlines.

It used to be, and this certainly happened on my last tour of Singapore in 1974-76, that RN divers replaced the Ensign on Repulse from time to time.

I recall being told that oil spill could be seen on occasion from the wrecks. Maybe I fooled myself into believing I saw it from my low level F4 in summer '72.

I've also read one historian's belief that this sinking was a definitive step in the rapid decline and fall of the British Empire.

In a similar vein, I have also read that lead pipes were a major contributary cause of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. Whatever, ours was bigger than theirs!

In Harris's 'Bomber Command' he spares no vitriol agaisnt the Admiralty and the Navy in general for their fixation on having Capital Ships. He personally knew Capt John Leach RN of HMS Prince of Wales - having worked with him in the Joint Staffs before the War, and also knew Adm Tom Phillips, of Force Z. In spite of being apparently very friendly with Leach, he was also very critical of his Big Ship thinking.

As an aside, Adm of the Fleet Sir Henry Leach, son of Capt Leach, was a Midshipman at the time in Singapore (having been initially drafted to the PoW), left the island before the Japanese occupation and was 1SL during the Falklands War, and died this year.

To answer a couple of points from the above Posts.

HMS Hood was in company with HMS Prince of Wales when the former was sunk 600 miles off Cape Farewell. When the film 'Sink the Bismark' was made, the actor Esmond Knight played the captain of PoW. He had been a junior officer on the PoW in the action and had been blinded during that action. Incidentally, there is evidence which suggests that it wasn't Bismark which sank Hood but Prinz Eugen - won't go there in this Forum as it's all too difficult!

As to PoW and Repulse. They were sunk off Kuantan on the east coast of Malaya but in shallow water. Both ships either rolled over or went onto their sides. The masts are not erect and cannot be seen in slack water. However, the shapes of the vessels can be made out from the air (saw them) and it is a custom for RN divers to replace the white ensigns occasonally if circumstances permit. There is evidence that the ships have been looted as some bronze propellers are now missing from the wrecks.

Although Captain Leach died, Captain Tennant survived and went on to have a full and very successful career, reaching flag rank.

Old Duffer

This is my story this is my song,
I've been in this air force too f***ing long.
So bring out the Rodney, Repulse and Renown,
'cos you can't have the Hood 'cos the B****ards gone down.

Chocks away, chocks away.

Dreadnought Mentality.
 

blaireau,

This excerpt from my #2819 (p. 141.) in "Gaining a Pilot's Brevet in WW2" is in the same vein.

"These were heroic sentiments, fully in accordance with the declared view of our contemporary Admiral Tom Philips out there that: "a properly handled capital ship can always beat off air attack". Japanese torpedo bombers proved him wrong off the coast of Malaya. He went down in "Prince of Wales" (one of our newest battleships), and with him the old "Repulse" and some 1500 men. It was one of our worst naval disasters of the war, and sealed the fate of Singapore, Malaya and Burma".

For the Japanese it was the "cherry on the cake", which practically finished off their so-far successful campaign to defeat all the Western powers in our S.E. Asian colonies. What was left after that seemed a foregone conclusion.

Above all, it shattered the myth of the "invincible" White Powers. They had feet of clay: the "confidence trick" which had sustained their Empires all these years had been seen for what it was.

Danny42C.

Re the report that both ships lie inverted: I've been told one lies on its side, and (as others have said), that on a calm day, both could be seen quite clearly from an aircraft. (A mate who flew for Cathay back in the 60s and 70s told me that the air route, I think KL to Hong Kong, goes almost over the site. Can anyone comment on that?)

I also read somewhere that the Japanese Navy had divers go down on the wrecks "within 24 hours of the ships sinking" (which might be an exaggeration, but who knows?) to recover the ships' radar equipment, which was, for its day, cutting-edge kit. They'd hardly have been able to do that if both ships were inverted.

It's strange how a small error made by a single man a long way away can have such huge implications. If the RN carrier (was it 'Glorious'?) hadn't run aground/hit a rock in the West Indies a few weeks or months earlier, it would have been there to provide air support to Philips' force. Whether the obsolescent 'fighter' aircraft on the RN carrier would have been able to hold off the attacking Japanese bombers, particularly if they had Zero escorts, is debatable. (Did the Japanese have airfields at that early stage of the campaign within a Zero's range of Kuantan?)

HMS REPULSE is on her side in 32-53 metres of water:

HMS Repulse | Tech Diving | Wreck Diving | South China Sea | War ships

HMS PRINCE OF WALES is inverted in 38-68 metres of water:

HMS Prince Of Wales | HMS POW | POW | Tech Diving | Wreck Diving | South China Sea

RIP all those that were lost :(

Zero Escort
 

I believe the ships were sunk by Mitsubishi G4M 'Nell' bombers. They were operating at the limit of their range and did not have a fighter escort.

Polecat

A slight thread drift but I happened to see a program the other day
on TV that was going through how the British sold aircraft and
expertise to Japan in the WW1 era. This included a long period
of training etc in Japan by British Officers.

The the agreement between the US and Britain occurred
stopped any future sales and training but a couple of officers
went over anyway to help them and this included landing
on ships.

What was interesting was that the first Commander of some
air training school that was set up in Japan went on to become
the brains and leader behind the attack on Pearl Habour.

Does anyone know what the program was called as I only
caught part of it.

The need for decent shipborne air defence?

Aster (missile family) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Standard Missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

S-300 (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WW2 ships may have had fearsome close-in defences, but the capability of modern air-defence ships is far beyond anything seen even in the Falklands. You certainly wouldn't catch me trying to take on any of the above. unless the ship had foolishly got too close to shore, and even then it would probably shoot down any incoming! The lack of fleet air defence aircraft is not necessarily the stark omission that it at first appears.

Glorious went down during the Norway campaign in June 1940, a victim of even greater folly than that which sealed the fate of PoW and Repulse. You're thinking of Indomitable.

The strike force was a mix of G3M 'Nells' and G4M 'Bettys'.

The attacks on PoW and Repulse were by 88 Jap bombers and torpedo bombers.

PoW - 18 x Navy Type 1 (G4M) 'Betty' bombers, 24 x Navy Type 96 (G3M) 'Nell' TBs.

Repulse - 9 x Navy Type 1 'Betty' bombers, 37 x Navy Type 96 'Nell' TBs.

These aircraft of the 22nd Air Flotilla (part of the Navy's 11th Air Fleet), attacking from French Indo China (Vietnam), and did not have fighter escort. Four Jap aircraft were lost.

ADML Sir Tom Phillips was C-in-C Eastern Fleet, and was killed on the PoW. Before the war he had shared a flat in London with air power advocate John Slessor (later MRAF). Knowing their different views on the effectiveness of air power, Arthur 'Bomber' Harris proposed a toast at Phillips' farewell party: "Tom, when the first bomb hits, you'll say 'My God, what a hell of a mine!'. "

If they did it was in spite of the efforts of my uncle. He was a civil engineer at the time working for the Air Ministry. He built airfields for the RAF in the Malay Peninsula in the time before the Japanese invaded. When that happened he reversed course and proceeded back towards Singapore blowing them up.

He made it to Singapore ahead of the Japanese, put his car into Keppel Harbour with a brick on the accelerator and managed to get on one of the last ships to head to Ceylon where he spent the rest of the war. Although he was employed by the Air Ministry he was not in uniform so staying ahead of the Japanese no doubt kept him alive.
Happily he is still fine, while a bit frail in body he is sharp as a tack otherwise.