Shaggy Sheep Driver. What an excellent screen name. Gives me an idea for a new thread.

Chipmunk Instrumentation
 

Aviate & Coffman:

Not claiming “bragging rights” or whatever, but here are my panels. My Chipmunk came out of the RAF in 1994 and the instruments are all the original ones, although they were all overhauled during the 6 year restoration. I’ve tried to keep her completely bog-standard (apart from all those placards and the voltmeter). Sourcing the stopwatch was quite an exercise in itself…

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...g/P1010124.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...g/P1010120.jpg

Interesting that the VNE is given as 155 kts. In my day it was 173.

Rosevidney1

IIRC the military T10s were cleared to 173KIAS and the civvy Mk 20 and Mk 22s only 155KIAS. I don't know if the military version was "beefed up"?

Dora-9

Good looking aeroplane, my friend :ok: (at least inside it is!)

LJ

Dora-9 ...

Simply beautiful ... well done on keeping one of the old girls airworthy ... and thanks for sharing :ok:

Best regards ...

Coff.

RAF TMK10 Chipmunk VNE 173 KIAS ... where as the Canadian Military variant had a VNE of 175 KIAS. Sorry I'm not that knowledgeable on the civilian MK20/22's.

Green ? Possibly...
 

My first air experience was out of Tangmere around April/May of 1970 and having gone onto fly later, it is etched in my memory as if on glass.

I was in the back with the instructor in the front, over to the sewerage farm for some gentle aero's and I flew most of the trip including the approach - he with his head between his knees, bobbing up every so often to check that I was still heading in the right direction.

The quiet swish over the grass and "check, check, check" settling on with a satisfying rumble...and the whole cockpit was green except for the coaming. I seem to remember it being worn down to black along the edge of the cockpit around the canopy but otherwise it was that strange pastel green colour.

I don't have a picture and I really regret it for more reasons than one.

I flew in the one at Booker a couple of years ago but it did'nt really sound or feel the same.

Imagegear:{

And that VFE of 71KIAS is for 2nd stage flap. You can go a bit faster on 1st stage (useful at busy fields to keep the speed up to short final, then reduce to the higher VFE for first stage flap, 71 for full flap, then stabilise trimmed at 60). Don't exceed either VFE - the cables are quite thin and if one snaps you'll get asymettric flap deployment.

Nice interiror, by the way.

That's one of the differences between military and UK civil certification. I fly a Mk 22, originally a T10. IAS limit as a T10 was 173 kt, now as a Mk 22 it is 155 kt. Also the x-wind limit has come down from 15 kt to 10 kt. So, no, the T10 was not "beefed up".

The T.10 and Mk.22 are absolutely the same aeroplane, with the latter civil certified with the reduced speeds and all those placards. Originally too the brake master cylinder was relocated behind the firewall, where it could drip on the radios and start a fire, but most Mk.21's and 22's here now have them back in the original position.

In Australia, CASA will accept the T.10 on the register, unlike in the UK. However when MMS was being restored it required an Approved Flight Manual and at the time there was no such thing as an AFM for the T.10, so it was registered as a Mk.22.

Leon - she looks great on the outside too!

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...VH-MMSDHC1.jpg


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...g/sunlight.jpg

Having done some research previously in to the Chipmunk, including a fair amount of historical material, I am pretty confident that the cockpit interiors have always been finished in black.

The only noticeable recent change that I have seen is the Shuttleworth Collection's Chippie finished to 'represent' the bright yellow scheme of the RCAF. '671' is actually a fictitious serial and the aircraft is registered as G-BNZC. It was never in RCAF service (wrong type of canopy for starters ...) but I suspect the scheme was chosen for being bright and attractive? Anyway, it is the only Chippie cockpit that I have seen done in something other than black - it is a light blue-gray throughout, including cockpit sidewalls and floor. I am not aware of any actual RCAF Chippie ever having had cockpits this colour.

See here and here for example photos.

Stuart, you've opened a can of worms here!

Some of the items "wrong" with G-BNZC purporting to be a Canadian-built DHC-1B-2-S3 or S5 that are visible in the photo you supplied include (apart from lacking that gorgeous blown canopy):

1. Incorrect spinner (Canadian ones have a join line mid chord)
2. Incorrect exhaust and lacks the tube intake on the nose cowl
3. Canadian Chipmunks don't have the longeron reinforcement plates immediately aft of the firewall
4. Incorrect shaped windscreen (Canadian ones are flat at the bottom viewed from the side, and have a narrower cross-section too)
5. Incorrect wingtip (nav light should be at 1/3rd chord)
6. Stalling strips 3 times too long
7. Undercarriage legs shouldn't be faired
8. Canadian Chipmunks don't have the battery access panels (on the fuselage top immediately behind the canopy)
9. There should be a reinforced whip antenna mount on the dorsal spine
10. Canadian Chipmunks never had the strakes
11. Elevator horns were more pointed/greater span on the DHC-1B

I could go on much further, but that will give you the idea - what were the Shuttleworth people thinking?

Dora-9 ... A very, very nice restoration/preservation job ... you are to be congratulated :D

I see you kept her in the first iteration of the "raspberry ripple" colour scheme ...

Best ...

Coff.

Stuart ...

You may know this already ... but thought I'd share given the above interest ...

The Shuttleworth Chipmunk was British built with a construction serial of C1/0778/DHB.f.677 and served with the UK military registration of WP905. She was one of the 150 Chipmunks in the WP series built during the period June '52 to April '54. The DHB in the in the fuselage number I've quoted indicates she was off the Broughton (Chester) production line.

Best ...

Coff.

NB. Apart from a personal lifelong 'love affair' with the Chipmunk (sad I know) ... the historic information above is not my work ... so due credit to Rod Brown and Bill Fisher for their dedication through a similar 'love affair' with this wonderful little aeroplane.

Dora-9 ...

I've just put 2 + 2 together and possibly come up with 4 ?

If so ... you are to be congratulated on your contribution to a certain book on the subject :D

Best ...

Coff.

So many enjoyable hours sat in the back of one of 2 AEFs Chipmunks and many more stretched out on the grass waiting for my turn.

I would love to know if anyone in the UK offers flights in Chipmunks, would be fantastic to sit in the back of one again.

Coffmann - Well spotted, that man!

Thanks for the nice comments about the Chipmunk. The choice of colour scheme was easy; WG478 desperately needed a repaint when she came out of the container, I've always thought the first permutation of the Red/White/Lt Grey scheme looked much better, and then when I discovered that she had been a "Blue Chips" aircraft with 2 FTS (I'd long fancied those markings), that was it!

Cheers.

Try Wickenby, Lincs I'm sure they have one for hire :ok:

Big Airways Flying Club at Booker has a Chipmunk.

Dora-9 :ok:

Best ...

Coff.

I love the notice in post 42. The flap limiting speed being precisely 71 kts. Not 70 kts, mind you. 71.

Dora-9 & CoffmanStarter, as I stated in my post, I know that '671' had never been RCAF but I didn't want this to turn in to a thread about Chippie variations - there are so many! All I was trying to highlight was that it is the only Chippie I have ever seen that doesn't have a black cockpit.

".... what were the Shuttleworth people thinking?" Exactly! As I wrote, "I suspect the scheme was chosen for being bright and attractive?" It looks nice against a green airfield perhaps? Who knows? There are so many pleasant enough RAF schemes to choose from (some slightly out of the ordinary) that it is a mystery. :confused:

;)

Dora - 9. As you know, I flew your aircraft many times when she was in the RAF and the VNE was 173 then. I probably exceeded 155 in her once or twice - sorry!

A fabulous restoration, and good to see she has the original instruments. The stopwatch isn't quite correct though. Although it's a Tag Huer Monte Carlo as fitted to many RAF aircraft, it's not the one fitted to the Chippy. The RAF Chippys didn't have one fitted pernamently, but we needed them for navigation training. So they had a clip in each cockpit to hold a standard hand held Monte Carlo which we had to sign out from the adjutant before flying, on pain of death and a large bill for non return!

"As an aside, I'm told that the MoD supplied DH with the instruments to be fitted in the Chipmunk."

Knowing how the RAF procured aircraft, they would have specified the instruments and these were the standard instruments fitted to many RAF aircraft at the time. The 'Standard Blind Flying Panel' was a RAF specification prior to WW2 and fitted to many aircraft from fighters to bombers in the conflict. It eventually led to the industry standard layout and the 'Selective Radial Scan' we were tought in flying training. Although it's interesting to note that the Chippy didn't have this standard layout - the altimeter was below the ASI which is how the Canadian aircraft were instrumented.

OK Dan I'm intrigued, so what was fitted in the Chipmunk? Mine came from an EE Lightning and originally had a massive backplate...

One of these.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.luxist.co...0/06/heuer.jpg

It was clipped into a permanently mounted clip on the main panel. Your stpwatch is original RAF but as far as I know, not fitted to the Chippy. If it was, it would be mounted on the coming at aye level which was the usual position for these watches.

THS (@ #56) ...

You might try these people at Shoreham ...

The Real Aircraft Company

Best ...

Coff.

Dan,

So what fitted in the clip below the tacho? Mine came with a G-meter mounted on the coaming, left of centre...

I remember signing for these from stores, for NAVEXs in the Bulldog - as close to a Navaid as it came! Used, also, in competition aerobatics although - if not firmly clipped in - it could become a loose object at inopportune moments (as one of my competitors discovered...)

Coming back to the original question...

It is difficult to trace official instructions regarding the internal colours of aircraft, but the following extracts may help:

Air Publication 2656A "External and internal finish of aircraft" Amendment 49, June 1950 "A matt finish is used, usually grey or grey-green in colour, but at any station which may be used for visual search at night, a matt black finish is applied." This was still valid in December 1953, when Amendment 65 was issued.

AvP 970 "Design requirements for Service aircraft" Chapter 100, Amendment 65, September 1957: "On all aeroplanes, a matt black finish... shall be provided for the whole interior and all items of equipment at each pilot's station, and at all other crew stations from which night visual search may be made.""

Presumably the original mention of "any station which may be used for visual search at night" would include the pilots' cockpits, to avoid reflections and so in 1950 (when the Chippy entered RAF service) cockpits would be black.

Sorry, Dora-9; I'm confusing you. The stopwatch clip was on the main panel and had four prongs. I can't remember it's exact location, but if that's where yours is - then that's where we clipped it. If the permamant stopwatch were fitted, (which I don't think it was to the Chippy - not on any of the ones I flew) then it would be on the coming as it's the main low level nav instrument and it needs to be in palin view all the time. All aircraft that had it fitted (to my knowlegde) had them attached to the coming.

BTW, check your PMs.

Quote: ''Dan Winterland is correct (as usual) on both counts.''

But not about the basket for carrier pigeons. I made that up!




If anyone is interested in the details about the comms fits, I do have the details. (But as a warning - it is very boring!)

Dan ...

I'd be very interested in the Comms fit history of the Chipmunk. My knowledge is limited to the 10 Channel Crystal Controlled 1985/86 Tx/Rx VHF config (see pics below and my previous pic on this thread of WZ845) and would like to know more on the UHF config ... outside the obvious UHF upper and lower blade aerial locations v the VHF quarter wave rod under wing aerial :ok:

I also experienced a 360 Bendix VHF config on WK518 before she moved to the BBMF.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...810D-17937.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...er/1986-04.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/.../1986-03-1.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/...er/1985-01.jpg

Best ...

Coff,

The pre-avionic upgrade Bulldog didn't have a stopwatch fitted, although we had a good Monte Carlo stopwatch after that Mod. - very firmly attached to the instrument panel.

Pre-Mod., the custodian of our stopwatches even expected fellow QFIs to sign them out from him, the miserable git. We took rather a dim view of this and a chum unscrewed his desk drawer assembly wherein he kept the watches from the desk top. So, if you needed a stopwatch, you just lifted up the corner of his desk and grabbed one from the exposed drawer - he never did find out!

In the late '60s and early '70s, our ULAS Chippies had that ancient VHF set, which was lovingly fitted with crystals tuned to long-dead mil VHF frequencies such as 142.29 Mc/s and 115.56 Mc/s.....

We had the same UHF radio in the Bulldog as was originally fitted in the UHF Chipmunks. Another large lump of ironmongery strapped down behind the left seat. I think it was also stuffed full of crystals; presumably voltage controlled oscillators working at UHF were but a distant dream when this ancient wireless set was first designed..... Fortunately the avionic upgrade included a proper multi-channel UHF set!

75 posts in five days! There is something very special about the Chipmunk. :)

In my time at UBAS (67-69), we did not have stopwatches, nor do I remember a panel clip. Was there something else there or just an empty space?

The UBAS fleet was fitted with UHF in mid-68, which was actually a backward step, since all the other Shawbury-based aircraft - Marshalls' Vampires and Piston Provosts - were fitted with VHF.

Coffman Starter, thanks for the picture. I had never seen the interior before. They don't make 'em like they used to, thank goodness! How much did that weigh and where was it mounted?

Dora-9, I absolutely agree with you. Having flown both versions, the T10 in Canadian colours looks awful to me.

WG478
 

For what its worth, my recollection is of all black cockpits but it is some time ago.

Dora-9
I guess VH-MMS used to be WG478.
I am sure you know where it has been and when but just in case, here is an extract from my log book for 1973. Your photographs show it looking much better than it was when it took me on my first solo. If memory serves it was from Church Fenton to Elvington and the ground was covered in snow.
Please let me know when you grow tired of it!

http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/...psf7346782.jpg
XN593

Hi IFT ...

I'm guessing the weight was about 15/20 Kgs. If you look at my pic at post #15 of WZ845 you can just see the extraction handle of the VHF set up under the front cockpit instrument panel ... the Ground/Flight switch was to the left of the VHF set located on the floor. If you we're lucky you could get about 5 to 8 Watts of ERP at the aerial. Although premitive compared to today, the set offered 25 Khz frequency spacing and good AM modulation. Mind you the inbuilt 24 Volt rotatransformer used to generate HT for the valves was noisy and generated quite a bit if heat ... useful in the winter !

I remember our Radio Technician just loved changing the crystals and retuning the set if we had to ferry our aircraft ! Tuning was achieved using a 12 Volt bulb soldered across an aerial plug ... optimal tuning was achieved when the bulb burned the brightest !

As you say ... they don't make em like that anymore !

Best ...

Coff.

Hi, apologies nothing to do with subject of this thread, I have a vivid memory/imagination,of when I was about 12 and Airfix were just releasing their kit of the Chipmunk,about 1967 ish ? that the chap who ran the local toy shop in Plymstock nr Plymouth told me,as I worried him about it's imminent arrival, that he had flown the first flight of a Chipmunk in the UK, I wonder if I imagined it or if it was actualy said and true, I remember he walked with a limp

Gordon

Way back at the end of 1965 the Valiants were suffering from wing spar problems. At the end of that year the captains were keeping in flying practice in an Anson and the co-pilots had a Chipmunk to play with. We started off with one borrowed from Marham but eventually we got our own: WP850.

This was painted in a standard disruptive green/grey camoflage finish. The reason, we were told, was that it had been last used in Cyprus as an air observation aircraft which is why it wore warlike colours. It had very few hours on it and it soon sported a 90 Sqn pennant on the tail as per the squadron aircraft.

I wish I had taken a photograph or our baby Spitfire. I believe that it is still in existence in the United States.