How very metrosexual... I wonder how those who "belong" feel about their hard work being reduced to an attendance course?

Surely, if someone wants to "belong" to an elite unit it is incumbent upon the individual to get off their lazy duff and fulfil the requirements. Before long DI's won't be able to shout at you in case they hurt your feelings... :hmm:

We're there, already.

I had a suspicion... So... What do the DI's do today, text in an aggressive font? :hmm:

AA - You're about thirteen years too late with your comments regarding the 'devaluing' of the maroon beret, given that 16 Air Assault was formed in 1999 and anyone posted onto the strength of said brigade is thrown one as they walk through the door.

As an aside though the maroon beret has never been purely for paras, it is only through reduction in force sizes and changing roles that the perception that it was only it for paras came about.

THS:

I'm aware that the maroon lid as with the "rampant" Pegasus on a maroon background is the official insignia of British Airborne Forces which also included the Glider Squadrons. Having been in the USA since 1988 I've been a bit out of touch with things in the Army though.

It's a shame they just throw them around now... Another example of the lowering of standards to accommodate the utter failings of the political leaders...

AA

Now that, I wholeheartedly agree with...actually I'd add certain military leaders too...

:suspect:

El P:

Unfortunately, past a certain point in the promotional ladder, the military leaders seem to morph into politicians. :rolleyes:

I knew he was to be the new Colonel Commandant, didn't know about the potted pilots course. Still think such awards, if awarded at all, should be worn on the opposite side to 'real' wings.

Crikey, on that basis, you might consider that Princes Charles and Andrew might wear their Para wings on the left sleeve rather than the right!
;)

Hat, coat, and running for cover...

Prince Charles was on the Para course before mine in 1979. He completed all 8 jumps IIRC... So, you can't knock him for that. I seem to recall he was made Colonel Commandant or some such of the Parachute Regiment and he was the one that stated that if he was to be such he should at least jump. If true I'll give him credit for that and not complain about him not doing P Coy... :)

So you don't mind him wearing full parachute wings without doing P-Coy (although, as already well covered, the former is not a requirement for the latter) but have a hissy fit about anyone 'lower' than him doing so?

So its purely a rank/position thing then?

No, nothing to do with Rank/Position... It's an honorary appointment and everyone understands that, (except, perhaps, you... :rolleyes: ). He could have simply worn the wings and got on with it. He chose to at least jump. Kudos to the man for that...

He is not some ne'er do well who finds that they can big themselves up because regulations potentially allow utter throbbers to wear insignia that implies they have actually achieved something. Before you tell me that jumping is an achievement I'll tell you it's not. People who will jump are predisposed to do so and no amount of Pre-Para or P Coy will change that in the man. Actually, that's not entirely true. Either course can persuade a man that he doesn't want to jump but neither course can convince a man to jump.

As far as I can see your reasoning then, if Prince Charles wears wings and you're OK with that due to his appointment, having your cake and eating it comes to mind as the distinction seems a little moveable here.

As far as many people are concerned, the fact that some people have completed a Pre-Para or P Coy course doesn't matter. If the regs state that someone is qualified to wear the badge then it's the regs that are wrong, rather than the individual, surely.

I served underneath more than one cap badge and alongside some "old school" type 1970's ex-Paras in one unit. As far as they were concerned, anyone wearing RAF Parachute badges were not fit to do so, regardless of how they had been earned or awarded. Towards the end of my time, I heard some saying that anyone who had been awarded wings after balloon jumping had been withdrawn had it easy.

It's all relative at the end of the day. I have no problem with anyone wearing any trade or qualification badges, no matter what they are or how they got them, as long as it was done by the appropriate book. Equally, I have no problem with either Prince Charles or Prince Andrew wearing their wings.

Apparently he did do all of P-Coy, except milling - on the grounds that it would be unfair on another recruit to be obliged to try to beat up the future King. At least that was the genuinely accepted wisdom on Arsse last time I checked.

However, on the same grounds, I'm equally fairly sure that he didn't do all the (then) eight qualifying jumps. I think he only did the singleton 800ft daylight jump without webbing & drop-kit which used to be the first qualifying jump of the course.

LOL - had the same smug snigger when I read Helpful Stacker's clarification of the RAF regulations!

Then they were BSing... The balloon was always easy. The most you ever did was carry a 45lb dummy container which was really just a jerry can filled with sand. More often than not the jump was clean fatigue and was an utter jolly. Hell, it was the only time I got to do a front somersault exit... :ok::ok::ok: Dennis Wreford, (II Sqn's PJI for a few years), even rode a pushbike out of the balloon for a giggle. Then you hand in your main and, hopefully, unused reserve and it's off to the mess for tea and medals... :)

In contrast the preparation for an aircraft jump took several hours of drawing kit and weapons and packing and checking your container. Then another couple of hours drawing, fitting and checking the parachute. At best it was another two hours getting to and aboard the aircraft where you might spend as much as 5 hours in low level flight before reaching the DZ. At P-30 you would be stood up to fit equipment and you'd often spend 15-20 minutes standing up with a 35lb main, 15lb reserve and a container sometimes in excess of 100lb. All before you jump. Then, at best, you had to carry all that crap off the DZ - If you were lucky the re-org was less than half a mile from where you landed. More often it was a lot further. Then, if this was an exercise operational jump you would carry your equipment, (possibly more than 100lb), 15 miles or more, tactically, across country.

Give me the balloon every time... :D

Well... They would, wouldn't they... :rolleyes:

II Sqn. started off doing P Coy. alongside future members of the Parachute Regiment. They also did Pre-Para prior to going to P Coy. After a time it was deemed that the requirements of Pre-Para had proved to be equally as rigorous as P Coy itself and that there was no longer a requirement to attend P Coy. This decision wasn't merely subjective. After a while it was noticed that everyone who passed Pre-Para and went on to P Coy. passed P Coy so it was a bit of a waste sending them.

Your mates were winding you up...

Para Wings
 

AA,

Seem to remember a colleague some years ago in pre-MPA Falklands who was entitled to wear Para wings without having attended P Company. In his previous posting he had served as a member of the Para EOD Section (formed after the QE2 incident that inspired a major movie - in fact the guy who jumped into the oggie with the guys from Poole was our boss in the Ammo Inspectorate during our FI experience!!

Me - I never wore para wings just enjoyed "jumping" - from light aircraft, C130 door & ramp, GSG9s old CH53 anything going really!!!