Downsizer

This is exactly what the consultation period is about; trying to find where to put an IP/EDP. As I understood it, there has been no decision yet about where that point may be, but what they did say was that this point might be later than it is currently - say 22/42 or 30/50 or something like that rather than 18/40 as it is for AFPS05.

I hope that helps?

Clott

As Cpl Clott said there will be an EDP point on the new scheme it just hasn't been decided when it will be. Given that much of the new scheme's framework has been set down by Lord Hutton, there still remain some discretionary elements that the MoD can influence and one is where the EDP should be. This is one of the things that the FAFPS Team will be consulting on. The options they are looking at are 20/42; 21/43; 23/45. The 30/50 point is not being considered in the Consultation Exercise. The briefs that are being delivered at the moment are some kind of preliminary to the formal Consultation Exercise which will start once the Consultation Document and an online survey have been released which should be sometime this month. No doubt there will be a big Internal Comms push on it.

With regards the new Normal Pension Age of 60, if your TCOS mean that you can only serve to 55, then you would be able to draw your FAFPS pension at age 55, but at an actuarially reduced rate, along with your protected AFPS 75/05 pension. The change of TCOS to allow service to 60 is not in the gift of the FAFPS Team, but is, I believe, being looked at by the NEM Team.

Rev

Reverend

You speak wise words, sir. That is exactly how I understand it as well. The Navy type that briefed us said "Hand on heart, no decision on what the future pension will exactly look like has been made" (or something along those lines). He went on to tell us that this is what the consultation is about and the "focus groups" would inform the variables that they are allowed to change within the new scheme.

NEM is also an area that is wide open. I know that TACOS changes are likely just like the FTRS guys who were recently told they could work to 65 (vice 60) as long as they're fit and healthy and their commitments are renewed. I know they also have issues with FTRS and AFPS05 - I would expect this to be fixed as reccomendation of the recent future reserves study. As it stands at present, most are FTRS75 pension earners as I understand it.

I'm optimistic that things won't be as bad as some would have us believe; but it doesn't stop some of the backstabbing wackners that get promoted as part of the Exec Stream (or whatever it's called).

CPL Clott

So, if they're going to move the EDP/IP to say, 22/42, where does that leave those of us on AFPS75? Does that mean we have effectively been extended until 22/42 from 16/38? Surely a 6/4 year extension is such a radical change to people's terms that they can't force that upon us?... Or is this yet another redundancy by stealth method in order to get people to leave without paying them a bean...I despair I really do.

If that is their thinking, then it's flawed. Because anyone on AFPS 75 who is already past their IP point and feels like they are about to be done over will just leave before the new scheme comes in to play, and the MOD will then have to start paying out. Hardly a good way of saving money - and given the numbers of people I know who are keeping a very close eye on things and are prepared to jump in 2014 - it will cost them a fortune. If they really want to save money in the short term the smart thing would be to cause as little damage as possible and encourage people to stay thus catching them in any new scheme.

Well, I'll be on my bike if they monkey with my pension to make my PAS Pension worse post 2015:=:ugh::mad:

FJ2ME

If you're on a PC on AFPS75 or 05 your exit dates will stand, however if you're SSC and switching to PC after 2015 then they will probably insist on a new exit date. For an OR then I'm not so sure as they may link it to promotion - which is not unusual for officers either as I had to waive my 22/44 point on AFPS75 when promoted after my 41st birthday.

Also, as Cpl Clott says, any AFPS75/05 pension will pay at the rank you retire at AFTER 2015 - not the rank you are at on 1 Apr 15. The rest will be paid on the FAFPS rate (whatever that might be!).

I hope that helps? I for one would suggest that you don't throw away an immediate pension at an option point, however, if you have an option before 2015 then you may want to consider it once FAFPS becomes clearer (for better or worse).

LJ

"AFPS05 is too good to be true"

A comment I wished I'd taken notice of! When 05 was coming in I was approaching 40 and 22 years service and not sure if I wanted to stay in the mob or not. Sitting firmly on the fence AFPS05 pushed me off onto the side of staying in. In my view, and that of many others, the new pension was designed to get people to commit to the service till age 55, rewarding them with a hansome pension for doing so. I was happy to commit to the service, I saw it as a fair deal. I'll stay till 55 and you make it worth while. Others who were unsure about this committment, rightly so, remained on AFPS75. If the recent DIN is correct, and assuming I have got this right, those that committed to the service and transferred to 05 will be worse of under FAFPS than those who stayed on 75. It appears that loyalty counts for nothing. I must be getting synical in my old age and unfortunately I have 11 years to do :eek: For those that stayed on 75 the difference in my case is approximately 3k a year and 10k on the gratuity :D I still live in hope that this dicrepency will be rectified, please don't laugh :confused:

doesnt it depend on where they set the ipp for the new scheme? surely as pas, you could pvr at the new pas point and have very little change to your pension?

Unfortunately I don't want to PVR. So if I stay in till 55 as planned I will be worse off than someone with an identical career that stayed on AFPS75:ugh:

Had an interesting brief from the AMP Briefing Team today. Well when I say interesting, I guess it's all relative. However, on the thorny topic of pensions - ironically, not the most prickly issue of the day - they did suggest that although the date for the new scheme was planned to be 1 Apr 2015, the complexities of introducing it meant that 2016 or 2017 was far more likely.

That's the second briefing I've been to where that very same thing has been mentioned, the first briefing being what I would regard as an impecable source. So given that benefits at the point of transition will continue to grow with rank until you leave i.e will reflect promotions and increments rather than being totally frozen at the transition level, it might give people a couple extra years to sort their planning out.

As I'm sure many would agree, the later they introduce it the better :ok:

Out of interest, what was this most prickly issue?

"In my view, and that of many others, the new pension was designed to get people to commit to the service till age 55, rewarding them with a hansome pension for doing so. I was happy to commit to the service, I saw it as a fair deal. I'll stay till 55 and you make it worth while. Others who were unsure about this committment, rightly so, remained on AFPS75. If the recent DIN is correct, and assuming I have got this right, those that committed to the service and transferred to 05 will be worse of under FAFPS than those who stayed on 75. It appears that loyalty counts for nothing. I must be getting synical in my old age and unfortunately I have 11 years to do For those that stayed on 75 the difference in my case is approximately 3k a year and 10k on the gratuity I still live in hope that this dicrepency will be rectified, please don't laugh "


This is exactly what concerns me. I opted to join the 05 pension in anticipation of serving to age 55 and based upon the figures given by the RAF itself it made sense to do so.
Would there be any basis upon which those who will be negatively affected by opting back then for 05 could demand to revert to 75? The benifits from swaping have been taken away by the very firm that told us on the Pension calculator that we'd be better off doing so.

Rank parity between 22 yr RAF Flt Sgts and 22 month Army WO2s on various Joint units.

At the FAFPS presentation that I was at someone asked the same Q; the answer was "it was a one-time offer to swap and no you cannot revert back to the old scheme as it is closed".

CPL Clott

Gah! I still can't see how that is legal*

1. Company offers pension deal A giving X, or pension B giving X plus 10%
2. Person signs up to pension B (no brainer as planning to serve to 55)

7 years later Company rips up all previous meaning that pension B is no longer obtainable to those that made positive choice based on Company figures, so it's now worth LESS than the original pension deal A, that they wouldn't have moved from if the Company hadn't made it benificial to do so.


How can that be right?


* moral

In a similar fashion, I will be interested to see what they do about AVCs which were tied into the respective schemes.

Bootscooter

You don't know if FAFPS is going to be worse than AFPS 75 though. As I understand it, no one does. Also, if you jumped from (AFPS) 75 to 05 and became PAS, then ALL of your pay is pensionable under FAFPS anyway. If you're not PAS but joined at <21 years of age I suspect that you will still do better than 75 which was pensionable for service after age 21. 75 was only really better for those that decide to leave before age 55 and by the sound of it you plan to do that - so I suspect, but don't know for sure, that your FAFPS and 05 pension combined will be better than 75 was for you?

If you know what FAFPS is going to pay then great, can you share it with us 'mushrooms' in the dark? :ok:

Of course, I may be completely wrong, but I don't believe that you should get too distressed until you know the facts of FAFPS.

Clott

You're right of course, none of us know the details but....

I joined at age 27, have done 16 years, do aim to serve to 55 at which point the 05 pension gives better return than the 75 hence my opting to change to 05. Sadly I'm not PAS.

I assume (yes, I know...) that as I will not serve to 55 on the 05 pension (because of it's replacement) I wont see the benifits of that scheme, and will be worse off than if I'd stayed on the 75 scheme.

I hope I've got this wrong....