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-   -   'Stop Cryin' in the Rear Rank' Can this be true? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/477633-stop-cryin-rear-rank-can-true.html)

olympus 18th Feb 2012 21:28

'Stop Cryin' in the Rear Rank' Can this be true?
 
'Stop Cryin' in the Rear Rank' is the title of a very interesting book which I found whilst searching out non-mainstream titles in the 'Military History' listings on Ebay. It is subtitled 'An Armourer's Worm's Eye View of World War II From the Ground' (which is rather tautological I think).

It is the first hand experiences of former Sgt Ron Borg during WW2 and was privately published in Canada so I suspect it is quite a rare publication. There is a vast amount of detail of life in the RAF, from his pre-war days as a Halton Apprentice to his various postings during the war and in Canada afterwards.

The point of this post however relates to a rhetorical question which he poses in the book -'Which member of 149 Squadron [flew on] the most operations?' He continues - 'It was certainly not a member of the aircrew but a young armourer on my flight. He did his work and whenever possible went on missions to the Continent. He preferred to fly with Commonwealth types; perhaps they had better chocolate and other candy. He did this for many months and was very popular with aircrews as he always returned safely. He was a sort of good luck charm. For obvious reasons I preferred not to know about his flying hobby. Provided his work was done satisfactorily, I regarded his 'dicing with death' as his own business'.

Can this be possible? Was it a common event for ground crew members to go unofficially on missions over Germany?

Milo Minderbinder 18th Feb 2012 23:09

another copy on sale at Stop Cryin' in the Rear Rank An Armourer's Worm's Eye View of World War II from the Ground - Borg, Ron

longer ron 19th Feb 2012 07:52

Well if it's against the rules somebody is gonna do it ;)

Trouble is that people would have kept it fairly quiet so might be difficult to find out how prevalent it was.

Although slightly different circumstances -on 69 sqn in Malta - Warby and co took an experienced camera fitter with them whilst flying operations in Beaufighter PR a/c -these brave volunteers changed magazines/fixed snags etc and acted as lookouts for enemy fighters.
I do not have a book to hand but a quick google comes up with 3 names...
Corporal Liebert, LAC Norman Shirley , LAC Ron Hadden. Although I have not read the book for years I believe that at least 1 of these men was decorated with a flying medal (DFM ?) -which in itself was extremely rare for groundcrew.

DC10RealMan 19th Feb 2012 08:03

The Nazi Propaganda Ministry made a big deal of a young woman who was found in the wreckage of an RAF Bomber Command aeroplane in 1943/1944 and who was a member of the groundcrew who had "gone along for the ride"
All very unofficial, of course.

NutLoose 19th Feb 2012 10:40

I can remember reading one of i think it was an Anson on an airtest when they had major problems and the pilot told the lad they had took along they were going to bail out, at that point several other worried faces appeared behind him, none of which had chutes... luckily he managed to get it back on the ground....

The worst must have been the FW190, during the invasion when moving fwd to operating bases they would shove a member of the groundcrew through the maintainance hatch into the rear fuselage and panel him in, often pilots who had the chance to jump when attacked by Allied aircraft elected to stay with their plane in a vain attempt to save the person in the back...

What the RAF came up with to transport people on a Spitfire with was erm so frightning they couldn't get anyone to test it, including the inventor.. it consisted of a glorified bodybag with straps that looped over the canon stubs on the leading edge!!

TEEEJ 19th Feb 2012 10:54

Some images of the transport bag that Nutloose refers to.

http://www.combatreform.org/SpitfireBodyBag01.jpg

http://www.combatreform.org/SpitfireBodyBag02.jpg

More transportation pods at the following.

From

WHY NO ESCAPE OR RESCUE FROM U.S. MILITARY AIRCRAFT?

Rigga 19th Feb 2012 19:33

Although not quite in the same vein as volunteer passengers/good luck charms:

As a 14 year-old I remember reading "The History of the Red Air Force" (origins forgotten) where it was stated that Tupolev bombers carried paratroops (sans Parachutes) holding on to cables bolted to the wings for the invasion of Finland. When flying "quite low" the troops were signalled to let go and slide off the wings into (an expected) 15ft of snow.

Even as a 14 year-old I wondered how they carried their guns...

From memory, the book didn't state how successful that strategy was or how many repeated raids were carried out.

longer ron 19th Feb 2012 21:31

Being as this thread has already 'drifted'...as a slight aside...

In his book 'Flight Path' Frank T Courtney writes that he was an apprentice with and got his 'ticket' at the Grahame White school at Hendon pre WW1.He joined the RFC as an AM 2 (Air Mechanic 2nd class),he was already an experienced engine mechanic - so quite a rarity then ,but due to a chronic pilot shortage and because he was already a civilian pilot he voluntarily took on some of the less popular flying tasks and despite wearing spectacles was eventually given RFC wings whilst still an AM2 and without any military flying training/test.He eventually managed to wangle his way to france to operational sqdns, was eventually promoted through the ranks to captain and became a freelance test pilot post war (inc for cierva on the autogiro).
Fascinating book by the way...really unputdownable

I believe that there was one other airman pilot in WW1 ,but he was an AM 1 ;)

MightyGem 20th Feb 2012 15:43


Tupolev bombers carried paratroops (sans Parachutes) holding on to cables bolted to the wings for the invasion of Finland. When flying "quite low" the troops were signalled to let go and slide off the wings into (an expected) 15ft of snow.
These look a bit higher than 15 feet.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/601257-2...m_Tupolev_TB-3

TorqueOfTheDevil 20th Feb 2012 16:22


The worst must have been the FW190, during the invasion when moving fwd to operating bases they would shove a member of the groundcrew through the maintainance hatch into the rear fuselage and panel him in
At the end of the war, during the evacuation of isolated German garrisons such as on the Courland peninsula, as many as three passengers were squeezed into the rear fuselage of an Fw 190 (now who said the fitness test was a bad thing...no room for porkers!:ok:). On at least one documented occasion (in fact on VE-Day), an Fw 190 carrying several pax in the manner described managed to shoot down a Russian aircraft - great for the pilot's victory tally, not so good for the nerves of the pax...:eek:

Rigga 20th Feb 2012 19:30

MightyGem:
"These look a bit higher than 15 feet."

A closer inspection reveals those woosy's wearing 'chutes! Although I admit I'd rather be part of the "Inside" class.

LowObservable 20th Feb 2012 22:16

MightyGem - For God's sake, man, take that photo down before Michael O'Leary sees it.


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