Tourist and I quite often disagree on this forum. He is an uncomprimising individual who genuinely believes he is right(whether he is ,or not)However, I find the rubbishing of his skills as an aviator quite unedifying. Clearly he doesn't require me to defend him, but come on! Banter is witty. Those comments were nothing of the sort.
MM4, Please explain why less SH is a good thing for the RAF. Me no understand. I have seen Puma 2 cockpit and perf figures. Not massively impressed. Gives the frame an extra decade or so. Whoopy-do. What then? |
I have seen Puma 2 cockpit and perf figures. Not massively impressed. |
I have seen Puma 2 cockpit and perf figures. Not massively impressed. Gives the frame an extra decade or so. Whoopy-do. What then? Yes, it only gives us an extra 12 years, but we either get the P2 or nothing. 10-12 years should be enough time for the ecomony to improve and a longer term medium aircraft to be purchased. The NH90 may even have all its problems ironed out by then! |
Mainly the cockpit actually. Tell me what will make a jot of difference to the way it operates now as an analogue version...... Will it enable more pilot SA, I don't think so.
Better engines, I agree and long overdue. There are accident reports going back to the 80s that recommended the fitting of an anticipator system. I guess that is why I'm unimpressed. It could have been so much better years ago. Without the demise of some good aircrew. The turd polish only lasts a decade or so. What then? Chinook only? |
Maybe we'll buy some blackhawks from anyone who's getting rid of theirs in 10 years time, the correct decision, only made 50 years too late..:E
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I fail to see financially what other options we have at the moment, there is little choice. If polishing a turd, whether you believe it should be puma or sea king keeps an additional fleet in the hope we get a good replacement in 10 years then so be it, or if you prefer we can scrap it and have fewer frames, less people and less capability, financially what else can we do?
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The argument for Blackhawk was a valid one in the eighties. However the limited headroom due to compatability with transporting it by C130 is no longer valid when air forces including our own have C17. With any luck a better designed battlefield helicopter (with a tail wheel) will appear in the next decade. NH90 is a good looking helicopter, but what we really need is a grandson to the Wessex that can stop whilst airborne quickly and be ran onto roughish terrain. One that has two cabin doors and seats around the cabin to free up floor space in between the seats for kit. Such a helicopter is yet to see the light of day and it is not Blackhawk.
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Mainly the cockpit actually. Tell me what will make a jot of difference to the way it operates now as an analogue version...... Will it enable more pilot SA, I don't think so. Better engines, I agree and long overdue. There are accident reports going back to the 80s that recommended the fitting of an anticipator system. I guess that is why I'm unimpressed. It could have been so much better years ago. Without the demise of some good aircrew. The turd polish only lasts a decade or so. What then? Chinook only? |
TM......... I totally agree
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The dies already cast for what happens in ten years
Puma will be replaced by AW149 - manned by the Army Any remaining green Lynx and other light helicopters will be replaced by a stretched AW609. Eventually these will replace Wildcat as well - and some will be fitted for AEW work Green Merlins will have been condemned by then and V-22 will be on order to replace them, and also the oldest Chinooks |
Whether or not the cockpit is any good/makes a huge difference to the operational capability of the crew was not really a huge consideration. The new glass cockpit is there simply because it came with the engines as part of an extant EC mod programme that had already been fitted to other nations' Pumas. To redesign it or try to keep the old analogue cockpit would have cost more, much more. Remember this was a Life Extension Project, NOT an upgrade (the 'U' word was forbidden!), cost was everything.
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Randy,
Top tip for you: never drink the bathwater. Even though you were clearly having a bath in vodka... TOTD:ok: |
Randy,
Please don't tell me that after Merlin and wildcat that we are going to give yet more taxpayer wonga to the Somerset con artists. |
redesign it or try to keep the old analogue cockpit Pity they kept the old undercarriage. |
For interest, considering the length of time that the Mikala engines have been in use, does the P2 LEP intend to use new engines, or will they be pre-owned/refurbished units?
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Caveat: been a while since I had anything to do with Puma 2, so things may have moved on!
The Makilas have been flying around with analogue cockpits in the 332 for thirty years I would have thought that introducing the glass cockpit at the same time was for flying and operational reasons with their obvious benefits The whole thing has only been done in order to get anticipators on the Puma so it can stag on for another 10 years. Anticipators requires Makilas, the Makila mod brings the glass cockpit. The glass cockpit is only there because it comes with the Makilas. The only reason it was done this way is because it is the cheapest way. |
IMHO the best replacement for the Puma/Wessex - type helicopter would have been/be the Westland Westminster. A twin jet Wessex with engines above the cockpit (NO CGB). It lifted the trailer plus a mounted Bloodhound missile together and that was back in the 50's. It was impressive but of course ****-canned by some short sighted tosser. It looked similar to the Blackhawk but had headroom enough to stand up inside. :{
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Dunduggin
It was cancelled so the money could be spent on the Rotodyne instead Now that would have been the real solution - damn noisy though Not sure how survivable that terylene skin on the Westminster would have been either - unless the production ones were going to be metal-skinned?? |
Just a query. Do Puma pilots get in the cockpit by means of the cockpit doors or are they still required to crawl in through the cabin?
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