Good stuff!

Remember the Jerry ADR's going off in the rects hangers at Cott, first water ingress into the impact switches then there was the old "what's this bump here for" syndrome...

Only recently found out the old warhorse never has a thermal limit either :O

JaJ,

Were you at RSAF Tabuk for the unpleasantness in 91?

I seem to remember someone banging the tanks off, also someone having a go at AGG from a long way up.

Gaz, yes I was, but I said 1 tank! ;)

JAJ,

Was that the incident on a range detail which resulted in and LGB being kept on instead of the tank, and the TIALD failing to guide the tank to the tgt?!

JaJ

Hmm - can't remember that one. SJ trouble?

30mRad / Gaz.....nope, neither of you are correct.

It was a deliberate act.

I remain confused. Was there a 3 tank/TIALD fit? Possibly tank problem necessitating jettison?

For this particular mish, yes. Not enough airborne fuel, so we took a 3rd tank, were concerned we didn't have enough to get home so punched it as soon as as it was empty. Great feeling! Only thing I dropped during GW1, but a great feeling nonetheless!

There were some interesting fits around then. I have a photo somewhere (I'll have to find it and scan it) of an early ALARM fit. No adapters available so there's 2 on the UWG stations and the 2 small jugs UFUS. We've all heard about the Buccs at 20ft trimming down into the ground effect....only time in a GR I've felt ground effect.

How low could you really go in a GR1?

And some Bucc pilots apparently said if they went low level to the point where they were skimming the sea/ground, the aircraft would ride its own pressure wave.... Some even said you could take your hands off the stick and let it ride on it...

JP later disputed this but it sounds fooooking awesome nontheless.

You could go as low in a GR1 as you could in any aircraft. Indeed, I still hold to this day that it is easier to simply not hit the ground than it is to try to fly to an artificial 100ft that you cannot see in front of you.

From end Aug '90 to when I left for Xmas in Dec '90, we were cleared to 0ft MSD on every trip. Tragically led to the loss of a couple of good young guys but was nonetheless very interesting, especially given the lack of visual cues over much of the desert (and the rad alt was pretty much useless below ~130ft).

So the Rad Alt failed below that altitude? Likely having a senior moment here but what would you refer to then for your altitude? the HUD?

"And some Bucc pilots apparently said if they went low level to the point where they were skimming the sea/ground, the aircraft would ride its own pressure wave."
The same used to be claimed (by some) of the FRADU T22 Camberras.
One of my school pals who went on to be an apprentice with Airworks / Flight Refuelling reckoned the things followed the waves so well they needed barf bags for sea-sickness. The pressure wave supposedly followed the sea waves...

JaJ

The lightbulb went off! I was there from Nov 90 to March 91, albeit as groundcrew. Remember having to do OTR's on JP 233, 3x PW2, 8 bomb, 4 bomb, and 3 ALARM.

After the move to medium level, 3 x PW2 were used against a single HAS - not much left after that! We decided to dig trenches then, in case Iraqi Air Force thought about flying and doing the same to us!

Most startling was seeing a jet come back with the JP 233 front bit (full of AP nasties) still on. Until one of our brave armourers, just booted the thing off and lobbed it in the bondu!

All that and not a lot of booze!

Jackaroo747

For that kind of extreme low flying you are not relying on ANY instruments - it’s purely an eyeball exercise. You just fly as low as you can without hitting the ground. Flying in a straight line is pretty straightforward - it’s the turns that cause the problems. You have to climb a little bit every time the bank goes on to avoid digging in the wingtip.

In my experience the HUD just gets in the way of a clear view forward, even in a single-seater. A good Head –Down compass display (Like we had in the Hunter FR10), just below sightline is fine for heading-keeping. I was never very impressed with the Tornado’s double combining-glass HUD, which made forward view even more difficult when it got a bit dusty.

Seen and flown against (F3 rather than GR1) many buccs flying 20 ft-ish oversea on fleet exercises and beat-ups of Gib, etc. They seemed very happy down there. Agree with the points about HUDs getting in the way, especially supersonic and with salty windscreens. Don't have the experience to comment on ground effect in Tornado.

Aye Pinkfin, that's the one. :ok:

edit: just looked at the rest of the photos in the link. Brought back a few good memories there m8. I presume they're taken by you, in which case.....Hi m8, not seen you in many years! I have the first photo on my wall at home. :ok:

Gaz ED

I think I can lay claim to the tanks being jettisoned on night 1, along with 2xJP233 after running through the target (Al Taqaddum) and not getting a release!

Likewise, my driver elected to do about 75º strafe from abt 25,000ft against, possibly Ruwayshid or one of the H airfields, memory growing dim - must dig out the logbook. Strafe done as it was the last opportunity befeore re-roling into TIALD spiking where strafe was prohibited.

Must have dropped more than a dozen u/fus tanks during transits before using TIALD sausage side. BTW, towards the end, I seem to remember the saints SENGO asking for the tanks to be thrown away as the groundcrew had chopped up the transit crates for firewood :ok:

Pinkfin - Good piccies - seem to remember pusing the TF envelope by trying to TF over some of those ridges :sad:

Smash Bugger - nice vid - a lot taken by my good self!

I can remember one of our bay support (Klingons) getting a jolly at Deci and when the pilot told him to press "Selective jettison" it was actually set at "Jettison all"
Apparently all the pilot said on the way home was "Oh F**K, Oh F**k".
Jollys stopped immediately and our hero "Cpl Kev Norman" :8 ended up being called "Napalm Norman" for the rest of his career I imagine
:O:O
:D

Smash B
We were shown some of these videos by one of our 31 Sqn aircrew at Dhahran during one of the briefing sessions
He stopped it where the shadow was closest and compared it with the A/C dimensions, this proved it was quite low :eek:
Good memories :D

Here are 2 photos I've just scanned in from my GW1 album of the ALARM fit previosuly mentioned.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

I'd embed them if I knew how. :confused: :(

Also came across this pic of the demise of one of our jets.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

ZA 466/ 18 Oct 90 / Tabuk. I remember it well, not a lot of fun but at least we survived.

Thankfully you did.

I recall the efforts to get you both back to Blighty, with the catering truck lifting Ivor's.....I'm not sure what it was called, but he was clamped into it well.....into the Tristar.

I did ask for a large G&T to dull the pain in my broken legs but 2 Paracetamol was the only offer!

Is it true that the back of this jet was married to the front of one that had a R Fus fire to produce a cut'n'shut?

Yes it was but the resulting aircraft was a little weird. Even with just outboard stores it was a little reluctant to go supersonic and when it did there was an unusual (but brief) yaw accompanied by a worrying howl from the canopy which vibrated to the touch.

Never liked that aircraft and the display crew would not touch it.

Bobby

Glad to hear you're alive and kicking:E. I was back seat in the replacement aircraft that we ferried out from LBH (and forever grateful that I did not have to operate from those sh*tty conditions).

Mind you, Dharhan wasn't much better - but we only had to endure that from about day -2 until endex.

All the best

Harry (Mister B to you!)

SAMXXV

I think you are muddling up your war stories ..... again. The incident being discussed (ZA466 Oct 90) is this one (or click here for the MOD summary) .... the one your 'story' relates to is, I believe, this one (ZD893 Jan 91 - and IIRC neither crew member was called Robert in this accident either .....)

Sorry Sam but Wrathmonk is correct, Bobby A jumped out of the barrier strike jet.

SAMXXV

Wrong ..... again - on both counts.

The names of the crew of ZD893 are open source and can be found here.

Strangely the ZA466 accident is not on that site.

I would give up on the 'war stories' until you can get your facts right.

PS - Bob The Builder went on to get a DFC for GW1 - if he had jumped out of the jet in either Oct 90 or Jan 91 how exactly would this have been possible ....?

Sam...I was there, you're wrong.

This is turning into one of those rare gems of a thread that make PPRuNE worth returning to.

Keep the stories - and photos - coming!

I took this photo the morning following the accident.

And this.

I tried to post a couple of photos but couldn't seem to work it, despite following the instructions on the FAQs. Any tips?

Engines
 

WTF has my reply gone?

SAM is completely and utterly wrong on all counts with this bolleuax speculation. I was at home base (II(AC)), waiting devlopments and taking a close interest as we had not yet firmed up the potential role/tasking - not to mention getting the IR recce kit fully up to speed.

As I said earlier, I was a crew member delivering a replacement, and taking home a jet needing in-depth servicing (maybe it isn't listed as they allegedly didn't pull the handle, enjoying instead a spontaneous ejaculation - remember this is a rumour site, and that was the rumour at the time. Bobby may be able to expand on this).

The man is trying my patience and normal easy going demeanour with his ill-informed proclamations.

Mister B

HTB
Definitely not a spontaneous ejection, Ivor pulled the handle. My normal last checks before landing were to check the slats were deployed and then check we had 3 greens. As I turned my head forward to check for 3 greens I saw the top 2 feet of the barrier illuminated by the landing lights and braced myself on the top of the TV tabs. The impact set off the MDC which shredded my hands with lead and Perspex. All Ivor heard was the syllable “F” before all h*ll broke loose.

Bobby, what number in the formation were you? IIRC, we were to be in front of you but our jet went u/s on the ground and I heard about it all when someone ran into the MQ whilst I was reading a book.

There was another jet landed ahead of you with another ppruner in the back. They were lucky...you weren't.

I was in the control tower next day and the Saudis claimed the barrier came up of its own accord.

just another jocky,

I think we were number 3 of the front 4 of an 8 ship. After tanking we descended to low level but couldn't get the TFR to engage so we returned to Tabuk. The BoE interviewed the F15 engineers who were looking after the QRA jets at that end of the runway and they said it had been raised for hours.

Bobby A