PPRuNe Forums - Scottish Independence

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For too long Englishness has been synonymous with Britishness.
National identity resides in the mind. I am English.
If you are interested in a vision of England as I believe it could be, especially if free of the Celtic fringes, then I recommend that you read Roy Strong's new book "Visions of England".

I really have to speak up against SAM's ranting (off topic, I know), particularly his vicious characterisation of Gp Capt McRobbie and Father Enda Naughton at RAF Laarbruch. I served at Laarbruch from 1984 to 1992 and, so can make comparisons between successive leaders; they were all sound and sensible men who allowed the boys a long leash to play on, and pretty forgiving of all but stupid transgression.

I'm not RC, but found Father Enda to be sociable in the Mess and robust in his view of life (I recall a subsequent incident, in London I think, where he tackled, literally, a would be thief and pinned him down until further assistance came - and he was then not a young man).

I can only imagine that SAM was a misfit, or doing a job that he was not well-suited for, making him unhappy, or the subject of professional criticism. I must have known him if he was an officer serving at LBH during my time there, but by the tone of his postings I would probably have avoided his company.

Mister B

Sadly I am a total racist. - but only in my own country - England. I make no excuses. I am Anglo Saxon & am proud of my heritage. My Grandfather was the RSM of the Vth Inniskining Dragoon Guards during both the Boer War & the 1st World War. He was awarded both the MC & the DSM.

Oh dear, Sam! I'll leave others to comment on whether or not you are a racist, and also respond to your intemperate personal outburst against named officers, and content myself with helping you sort out your family tree.

Firstly, there has never been a regiment named the Vth Inniskining Dragoon Guards. There was a regiment named the 5th Inniskilling Dragoon Guards, formed from the amalgamation of the 5th and 6th Dragoons, but this was not until 1927, long after the periods of service you mention. Furthermore, in view of your burning desire to be regarded as English, please note that the "Skins" as they were known had all their origins in Ireland!

Secondly, assuming that by DSM you mean the Distinguished Service Medal, you should be aware that this was instituted in 1914 for award predominantly to naval personnel rated Chief Petty Officer and below, whlist the DSC or Distinguished Service Cross was awarded to commissioned officers and warrant officers until 1993, when the DSC was awarded to service personnel of all ranks and ratings. I appreciate that it would not have been impossible for your grandfather (assuming that he was not a walt) to have been awarded the DSM, but it seems much more likely that he was awarded the DCM or Distinguished Conduct Medal, which actually rates higher than the DSM, or its army equivalent the MM or Military Medal.

So, once you have considered that you really should remove the extraordinary personal remarks, I suggest that it would be better employed contacting either the National Records Office or the Dragoon Guards Museum in York to find out more accurate info about your very interesting sounding grandparent.:ok:

I certainly hated ignorant Scot's who would always try to shout you down.

Oh double dear, Sam, who is being ignorant now?:uhoh:

Jack

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His announcement of the end of a Maxeval/Taceval was the deployment of all the mess staff with trays of fried egg sandwiches.

Sounds like a top staish to me....

SAMMXXV:-

At last you make a point that many of us, I am sure, can agree with you on. We are also embarrassed by the fact that you are ex-RAF.

SAMXXV,

I joined the R.A.F. in 1977, and mourning the loss of the old R.A.F. was common place then. I'm currently reading Tony Doyle's book " Flying at the Edge" and according to him, the old R.A.F. died out in the 1960s. By the way my own late father thought it petered out immediately following 1945.

All relative I suppose.

P.S. Like the way you refer to S.A.C's as something along the lines of livestock.:ok:

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His announcement of the end of a Maxeval/Taceval was the deployment of all the mess staff with trays of fried egg sandwiches. Better than haggis sandwiches though....

Excellent fellow!

Since all the rocket people did on exercise was to turn up, put the lights on and let the dogs out, I can understand that you didn't view this kindly gesture with much regard.... :mad:

By the way, a bit of a gypsy's - one doesn't come on here and start slagging people off by name. There is a code, old chap.

[sickening pause] ....right.... [another sickening pause]... [insert tumbleweed emoticon]...

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Neither had the guts to go & fly with their squadrons during the 1st Gulf war. They left it to the likes of me to do 24/7 shifts in the Laarbruch WOC as the Operations Officer to sort out anything & everything to do with notifying next of kin & sorting out the repatriation of JP & JN from Akrotiri - along with the British Press Corps.

Did you volunteer to go out to the Gulf and get turned down then Sam? If so I'm sorry to hear it.:{

FB:)

I must say that, having known the said Gentleman since 1965, I do not recognise the description of the "named and shamed" Group Captain.

Sam:

This Harry Croft?

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How Squadron Sergeant Major Harry Croft, Of The 5th Dragoon Guards, Won The D.C.M. At Zillebeke

At the end of February 1915, the 5th Dragoon guards were in the trenches near Zillebeke, performing more or less cheerfully, the work of infantry, as they had been doing all through that long and dreary winter. Meantime, they themselves were receiving a lesson on the imprudence of yielding to a temptation to admire the landscape, where the enemy’s trenches were not a hundred yards from their own, and there happens to be a wood affording admirable cover for snipers in between. For whenever one of them chanced to raise his head above the parapet, a rifle, and as often as not two or three together, cracked.Among the trees, and if he escaped with a bullet hole through his cap or an ugly furrow along his cheek, he might consider himself fortunate. The unwelcome attentions of the marksmen in the word were becoming a serious nuisance, and Squadron Sergeant Major Croft made up his mind to put a stop to it. He did not believe that the shots came from isolated snipers, since it is seldom that two or more snipers fire almost simultaneously, as so frequently happened in this instance, and came to the conclusion that the Germans must have an advanced post somewhere in the wood. Accordingly, on the afternoon of February 27th, he went out to endeavour to locate it; but before he had penetrated more than a few yards into the wood he was seen and fired upon by the Germans, and obliged to return. However, he had noted the direction from which the shots came, and that night he crept over the parapet of the British trench and crawled into the wood again. The task in which he had undertaken always very dangerous work-was rendered the more hazardous by the fact that there was a bright moon. But, on the other hand the wood had been so damaged by shellfire, that fallen trees and broken branches were lying everywhere, and on a dark night it would have been almost impossible for him to move about without making a noise which would have attracted the enemy’s attention.

Slowly and cautiously, Croft made his way through the wood, and had come within thirty yards of the German entanglements, without seeing any signs of an advanced post, when suddenly he heard voices quite close to him; and there, only a few paces ahead, was a trench filled with Germans. Croft had not brought his rifle with him, since it would have hampered his movements; but he had provided himself with a couple of revolvers, and drawing these, he took cover behind a tree and began blazing away at the astonished Germans. Shrieks and curses told him that some at least of his shots had not been wasted, and in a minute or two the enemy, evidently under the impression that they had been surprised by a party of our men, got out of the trench and made off to their own lines as quickly as they could. Nor do they appear to have returned it; anyway the 5th Dragoon Guards had no longer any reason to complain of their unwelcome attentions.Squadron Sergeant Major Croft was awarded the D.C.M. for “conspicuous gallantry,” the official announcement of this honour adding that “he had been noted for courage and enterprise on previous occasions.” The brave sergeant major is a Warwickshire man, his home being at Saltley, Birmingham. Extracted from 'Deeds That Thrill The Empire'

Because there aren't many other SM's out there in V Dragoon Guards that Google is aware of... ;)

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I only found out several years ago by using the "Freedom of Information" act to retreive all my ACR's that McRobbie had told me to my face what a good chap I was - but the ACR's told a different story when I received them from Innsworth....http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ilies/evil.gif

He probably wrote what most of us are thinking :ok:

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He was awarded the DSM as a cavalry RSM for leading a horse attack on a German armoured troop train (the last ever recorded cavalry charge) at Harbonniers, France

.

SAM - you really won't be told, will you? I think if my grandfather had won the DCM I'd take care to get the initials right and not repeat the error after it had been pointed out to me.

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I certainly hated ignorant Scot's who would always try to shout you down.

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Oh double dear, Sam, who is being ignorant now?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/worry.gif

I think you missed Union Jack's point, SAM. I rather think he was referring to that intrusive apostrophe, just in the spirit of adding a little salt to the wound, I suspect.

Damn apostrophe!

Probably invented by a scot......

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Neither had the guts to go & fly with their squadrons during the 1st Gulf war.

Untrue, and way out of order. Appalling.

I hope SAMXXV has a good Lawyer - after all, these derogatory unfounded statements can be read worldwide.

Looks like Sam's new lawyer has advised him to delete his posts! Going to leave mine where it is as it looks even funnier orphaned under BEagle's post.

It would appear that Sam also deleted his thread on MBT updates. Just as I was posting a reasoned response. Shame. I am proud of that response that no one will get to see.

Pr00ne,

Scotland will own all the oil and gas (including Dorset). Just need to redraw the borders somewhat.

Actually, you are incorrect on what you believe about Scotland. For the population there is in Scotland, the region does give an awful lot of money to the United Kingdom coffers.

As for what both Labour and he Conservatives did, wasting all that oil money in the past, it is a disgrace. That money should have been handled as the Norwegians have handled their oil money.

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Looks like Sam's new lawyer has advised him to delete his posts! Going to leave mine where it is as it looks even funnier orphaned under BEagle's post.

Yes, even the one about his dear old grandpappy who he was so proud of... Until he realized he was a little confused about the mans feats, (not insubstantial as they were)...