jamesdevice
how much practical use would it have been in a non-nuclear role? e.g. as a maritime patrol aircraft? Or as a tactical bomber? As a tactical-bomber, there's nothing that says you can't use a strategic bomber to bomb military targets. It could fly fast at low altitude for a large aircraft, it was said to have good handling characteristics, and it was a sturdy aircraft (the incident that resulted in a structural failure resulted in a g-load of 9g or more) probably capable of pulling at least 6g. Strangely enough as I type this I've got a you-tube video running about "the nuclear bomber" and it states that the USN actually intended powering the turbines with a nuclear reactor. |
did you just bump the thread by deleting the post and then reposting it?
Reason I asked the question about non-nuclear use was whether it would be any use in the current Libyan problem. Offers a third solution in the land vs carrier dispute. Or would potential sea-state problems be too much of an issue? |
Good question about the efficacy of the Martin aircraft in Libya today:rolleyes:. Oddly enough I don't think even the RAF would still be using a 55 year old design in front line service though, and don't pull the B52 thing, the current frames are only 50.
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OK, be sarcastic if you want, but what if you had a modernised equivalent? Its the concept I'm getting at. And who knows - if it had gone into service, it may have had a production run as long as the B52. I wonder what the Seamaster development equivalent to the B-52H would have been
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a production run as long as the B52 |
yep. And the remaining 'H models are scheduled to last until 2045
Supposedly.... If it happens it'll make the surviving ones 82 years old at retirement The oil's going to run out first |
The oil's going to run out first |
yep. And the remaining 'H models are scheduled to last until 2045 Supposedly.... If it happens it'll make the surviving ones 82 years old at retirement The oil's going to run out first |
OK, so I'll re-ask my question in a way thats less open to misunderstanding,
Could a modern sea-plane bomber provide a useful alternative to land or carrier based aircraft in a conflict such as that currently in Libya? Could you safely base it with and replenish it at sea from your surface fleet? |
In essence not really!
The fleet would have to have access to sheltered water - sheltered not just from the weather but also from 'bad people and things'. Seaplanes have landed offshore - and some of them have actually taxied or beeen towed home - but the sea state needs to be very reasonable - so this adds a massive constraint. Seaplanes made a lot of sense when building long runways was difficult or expensive, now that is comparatively easy with the mechanised equpment we have. The constraints in terms of payload, operations (weather, maintenance, support etc) simply make it all too hard to be worthwhile |
The SeaMaster was a fascinating machine. Ask even a well informed online forum to name two 1950s nuclear bombers designed for low-level operations and the answer will be "Valiant B.2 and .... errrmmm?".
There's quite a lot out there about the tech, but not so much on operational plans. What were they going to do, lurk in a fjord in Iceland and mine the :mad: out of Murmansk? |
the fact they contemplated powering it with a nuclear reactor makes it even more intriguing. Just how long could you keep it aloft before crew fatigue issues kick in? It doesn't look big enough to carry any relief crew.
or maybe the reactor was simply to avoid lengthy at-sea refueling: replenishment at see would just mean reloading the bomb bay (did you notice this was done from ABOVE via the rotating carousel?) and exchanging crew |
JD - The nuclear-powered concept was a different and much larger aircraft.
Also, for V-bomber fans - the definitive SeaMaster history... (mine is on the bookshelf next to the Rottweiler's food bowl) ... doesn't talk about turboramjets at all. The original planned engine was the Wright J67, an Americanized Olympus. |
jamesdevice
Offers a third solution in the land vs carrier dispute. Or would potential sea-state problems be too much of an issue? Harley Quinn Oddly enough I don't think even the RAF would still be using a 55 year old design in front line service though, and don't pull the B52 thing, the current frames are only 50. 1.) The P6M was actually a newer design than the B-52
2.) If the P6M entered service, it's likely there would have been several variants of the P6M built of which the newest ones hypothetically could have remained in service until present. Willard Whyte What, 10 years? John Farley I thought they were already flying some on fruit and veg I don't think it's a good idea to make fuel from fruit and vegetables because it will drive up the price of food; as for biodiesel, you don't need fruit and vegetables to do that; you can make biodiesel from deep-fryer oil, methanol and lye. gasax The fleet would have to have access to sheltered water - sheltered not just from the weather but also from 'bad people and things'. Still, there are numerous land-bases in the mediterranean that could be used for the same purpose and I think a B-1, an A-10, or an F-18 would be better suited for the task. LowObservable There's quite a lot out there about the tech, but not so much on operational plans. What were they going to do, lurk in a fjord in Iceland and mine the :mad: out of Murmansk? The nuclear-powered concept was a different and much larger aircraft. ... doesn't talk about turboramjets at all. The original planned engine was the Wright J67, an Americanized Olympus. |
Jane-DoH & John Farley
Quote: I thought they were already flying some on fruit and veg Are you talking about something like biodiesel, or are you talking about ethanol, or something else? I don't think it's a good idea to make fuel from fruit and vegetables because it will drive up the price of food; as for biodiesel, you don't need fruit and vegetables to do that; you can make biodiesel from deep-fryer oil, methanol and lye. It was a USN F/A-18E that flew on a 50/50 blend of conventional jet fuel and a biofuel that comes from camelina, a hardy U.S.-grown plant that can thrive even in difficult soil. However, various private and commercial jets have flown on various bio-fuel/jet fuel mixes. |
Fischer-Tropsch
An excellent name for a cocktail, since after three you couldn't pronounce it without getting 86ed for spitting on the bartender. Piet and Raithel say that the whole Seaplane Striking Force concept - which included the SeaMaster, the F2Y Sea Dart for air defense and the R3Y Tradewind for logistics - started after the Truman administration canceled the USS United States, the first supercarrier. The Navy was worried (as was the Army) that they would suddenly become irrelevant if all war was to be nuclear. The P6M's primary role was minelaying but it was also tested with nuclear bomb shapes. It was a difficult and (for the 1950s) long development program - the P6M-1 was far from operationally suitable and the P6M-2 was different in many ways and only just emerging from development when the project was shopped. It's near the top of the "damn, why did the bu99ers have to scrap all of them?" list. |
GreenKnight121
Actually, the B-52 flew on (and is now certified to use) a Fischer-Tropsch fuel derived from natural gas. It was a USN F/A-18E that flew on a 50/50 blend of conventional jet fuel and a biofuel that comes from camelina, a hardy U.S.-grown plant that can thrive even in difficult soil. LowObservable Piet and Raithel say that the whole Seaplane Striking Force concept - which included the SeaMaster, the F2Y Sea Dart for air defense and the R3Y Tradewind for logistics - started after the Truman administration canceled the USS United States, the first supercarrier. The Navy was worried (as was the Army) that they would suddenly become irrelevant if all war was to be nuclear. While the USN could have developed a flying-boat nuclear-bomber at the time, which would have been better from a practical standpoint it wasn't the best choice from a political standpoint as the USAAF/USAF could argue that they could operate sea-planes too. The carriers however were, an asset the USAF couldn't control, USAAF/USAF pilots were not trained to operate off carrier decks -- and for this reason, the USN wanted a carrier-based nuclear-bomber which of course necessitated a new carrier to be built to operate them. Even though the USS United States was cancelled, the motions the Navy went to, simply to build the bomber and carrier effectively gave the USN the justification to basically exist. Once that was done, the Navy could now focus on other options (more practical ones too) which included the Seaplane Strike Force. The P6M's primary role was minelaying but it was also tested with nuclear bomb shapes. It was a difficult and (for the 1950s) long development program - the P6M-1 was far from operationally suitable and the P6M-2 was different in many ways and only just emerging from development when the project was shopped. It's near the top of the "damn, why did the bu99ers have to scrap all of them?" list. |
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