RAF to support Met Police operations?
 

The Telegraph is reporting that "James Clark, the former Ministry of Defence head of press, tweets that the RAF may be drafted in to support police operations"

I'm guessing he means some kind of RW support? Any thoughts? This is after all a rumour network :E

I heard a few reports that if the Police can't regain control they should send in the troops - ground troops !!! Another Bloody Sunday.

They can't even decide on using water cannon, can't see them putting troops on the street - although probably not a bad idea.

Seems the Police are very reluctant to "Police", assirt control and arrest in large numbers ?

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It's clear that there is at present no intention of using troops on the ground. The problem the police have is the sheer numbers of thugs - the police don't have the mobility of resources or the numbers of resources to smother thuggery quickly enough.

The Prime Minister cannot order troops onto the streets of this country to subdue it's citizens. It is part of the constitution.
So all the Daily Mail readers and armchair experts can spout as much crap as they want.
This is down to the Civil Authorities.

Constitution??? Yer been readin' too many Yank comics son. The UK does NOT have any kind of written constitution (not counting the Magna Carta).

In any event there is something in the Military Manual called "Aid to the Civil Power" that might cover things.

Wyler

Since when ? What reference ?

So they can in NI but not in London ?

AA
"The problem the police have is the sheer numbers of thugs - the police don't have the mobility of resources or the numbers of resources to smother thuggery quickly enough."

So if they don't have the resources, call out the troops to free up the Police to go to the front line and get hold of the lot of them one by one. Or send in the troops and let them get on with it because it will be the last time they riot.

Seems they know the response will be "soft".

"The way we police is by consent.''British policing has always meant and always depended on the support of local communities and that's what we need now.'

As much as i'd like to see a military prescence on the streets it's not going to happen. Lets be honest, the pink and fluffy brigade are prepared to have soldiers locked up for what they did in Basrah during a war.... they'd have a field day if some skulls get cracked in the capital.
Maybe if the police got in amongst the scum with batons it would help instead of standing back and watching.
2 groups are needed. Front line bunch of baton weilding coppers giving it hell. Behind them a mop up group, cuff anyone on the ground, arrest them and then let the medics in to patch them up before they're straight off for a court appearance. Stop any dole, allowances whatever they're on until the bill is cleared for the mess they've made and put them on the clean up crew through the day and lock the feckers up at night. But that would be against their human rights as well so it'll never happen either!

Bring out the water cannon.

500N,
The Police are reluctant to arrest in large numbers because in a riot situation it's very hard to do so. Pulling offenders from the crowd takes manpower. They won't come quietly and others will intervene to try to prevent it. Reckon at six officers per arrest?
Once arrested the offender then has to be taken back from the line, transported, detained and processed. They can only be held for twenty four hours so the investigation has to begin.
All this pulls manpower away from the front line. For many years now the preferred tactic has been to gather evidence at the scene and arrest later.

Of course there are other factors playing on the mind of each and every officer. For decades now the Police force has been subject to a continual process of confidence stripping through judicial second guessing and leadership pandering to Liberal hand-wringers.
Successive cases, Lawrence, Climbier, De-Menezes, Tomlinson and Connelly have all seen officers villified in lengthy inquiries that paid no heed to the environment in which officers are expected to make snap decisions.
This has led to an incredibly risk averse culture. One of the most often used phrases in British Policing today is "So we can't be criticized."
Everyone who's watched The Bill thinks they know how to Police. Never mind that each Officer trains for two years and continues to train throughout their careers, their professional judgement counts for naught until the wheel comes off and then all fingers point aghast as everyone wonders how the Police could possibly have let this happen.
What we're seeing isn't happening because the Police are letting it. It's happening because people with criminal intent are working in an organised way to take advantage of a stretched force to burgle and steal. Remember, those buildings aren't burning because they represented authority but becuase they want to destroy evidence once they've stripped them clean.

Tashengurt

Well put.

We have the same problem here but when I was growing up in the UK,
the police were different.

"held for twenty four hours" is pathetic in situation like this.


On another note - it's interesting to hear of some communities standing their ground and the mobs leaving them alone. I think the Turks were mentioned
and one from another community on the radio over here saying the same thing.

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One issue that surprises US colleagues is the ease at which military personnel in the UK can be mobilised to aid the civil power. There have been changes over the last few year,s because of the forces limited capacity to respond, but, for example, OP FRESCO (fire-fighters strike), requires no primarily legislation to be enacted. In the US, National Guard units can be called out by the Governor of that State, but usually Federal Troops cannot, under the principle of posse comitatus which was designed to limit the use of Federal troops in domestic law and order matters.

This last point has caused some problems on coalition operations abroad. In a previous appointment, I dealt with issues in the Balkans and we had problems with US Reserve and NG units that would not share intelligence on PIFWICS - on the mistaken belief that they would be breaking the Posse Comitatus Act, 1878. Interestingly, there are similar legislative impediments to German Military Intelligence sharing material with civil police, due to ahem, a historical legacy, ahem, of the Geheime Staatspolizei.

In the current situation in London, and elsewhere, unless military personnel are trained and current in Public Order duties, it would be extremely unwise to deploy them in a front line role. Clearly, ISR and logistical support are obvious roles. Troops could be used in a reassurance role – presence at airports, tourist locations, tube and railway stations, for example, to ‘sense and warn’. We’ve done this before and if you were to visit Rome, there is a strong Esercito presence on stations and in public places to deter the traditional livelihood of nomadic people from Eastern Europe.

We need some Assad type action here - bring back the Tornados/Typhoos from Italy to bomb the 'feral rats'.

Cue The Sun with punchy graphic of squadrons of 'swing-wing hunter killer Torando RG4 [sic] with heat-seeking death ray anti-rioter pod' circling London. :hmm:

Didn't they claim a Tonka was helping hunt Raoul Moat?

Military Aid To Civil Power may well be used. That means helping the Fire Brigade, maybe provision of medics, logistics etc etc. You will not, however, see Squaddies baton charging rioters.

""tweets that the RAF may be drafted in to support police operations"

I'm guessing he means some kind of RW support?""

Perhaps he does mean airborne support, its what the RAF does reasonably well! (Albeit with a large AAC input).:=:=

You used the Army to put down riotous Indians etc in colonial days why not use them in London today?

Remember Enoch Powell's words...

He was right.

Yes - good idea TBM Legend. After all, the UK is still reaping what Brigadier Dyer sowed at Amritsar in 1919. It is probably the defining moment of Indian Nationalism, inasmuch as the 1916 Uprising in Dublin is/was for the people of the formerly financially indepedent Republic of Ireland.

"You will not, however, see Squaddies baton charging rioters"

Pity as this is exactly what is needed to teach these arrogant thugs a lesson!

Yep, putting the army on the streets will really sort it out quickly. Last time it was done in the the United Kingdom it took 30 years, and still there are flare ups. Was that the time scale you were thinking of? I'm talking about Northern Ireland, in case you had forgetten that it's part of the United Kingdom.

Water cannon - we dont have water cannon. Maybe we should have but it's no good bleating about it at the moment, they're just not there, unless PSNI came across from Belfast and bring a couple

I cannot understand the reluctance to use water cannon, rubber bullets and tear gas. Sure, there may be serious injuries or even the odd death but it is their choice to be there on the streets.

This year in Greece many British tourists have been put off coming here due to similar problems in Athens. Roll up folks it is now worse in the UK :ok: