Far East Driver - I'm sure you realise that these things are relative - they are still rocket seats and although I'm very grateful personally for having had the 'luxury' of a real ride on one, I would not recommend parachuting with a fractured spine to anyone! Certainly better than the alternative, and MB have my eternal thanks, carts, rockets and all!

What kind of crass comment is that?

(Martin Baker Tie Member).

People can't take a joke any more.

Rocket seats
 

IIRC from my days at IAM Farnborough in the late 60's, the rocket in the seat was primarily designed to continue lifting the seat to clear the aircraft, post the initial "triple bang" charge to get the occupant out of the cockpit. The rocket doesn't contibute much to the initial cartridge vital acceleration, close to the spine's limits, to get you out ASAP and on your way, (hopefully, upwards) although it can help with vectoring you skywards in more modern ( e.g ACES) type seats.
So basically the opccupant of a rocket seat does not get an easier initial ride than his or her (non-Rocket) predecessors.
I did go up the seat training rig when it visited Cranditz in '73: the big lesson to me seeming to be be how long 0.6 of a second takes when one is waiting for something to happen.


But then again,those who have done it for real.............

They had a rig at South Cerney in '65. One chap had the misfortune to suffer a misfire. While they sorted it out, he loosened the straps and leant forward. The subsequent firing damaged his back and, despite his and the medic's best efforts, he never finished flying training.

Dunker. Ah yes. Those of us of a rotary persuasion enjoyed the rig at Portsmouth, courtesy of the RN. The Whirlwind cabin was suspended over the tank, with the landward end of the boom attached via a bevel gear. When the crane "let go" the cabin sank, went nose-down, and rotated, ending up inverted. Interesting watching the water approach from different angles. Amazing how a person wearing a waistcoat dinghy can get out of the tiny windows in a Whirlwind.

At Tengah early 60's OC tech got everyone down on the football field to demonstrate the effect of an ejection. We had the Jav's (60 Sqn.) equipped with MB seats, having replaced the Meteor 14's with no ejection seats.I guess the idea was to make aware of the implications of pulling the wrong handle to maintenance crews !!! The seat was fitted into a rig (local manufactured) and the handle tied to a rope and pulled from a safe distance of course ! The result was quite sobering and dramatic. From that day, I always checked the pins and climbed into many cockpits for many years afterwards very gently!!!!!

My jocular statement having been taken the wrong way I will now have to justify it. A bit of research revealed a fasinating Martin Baker website.

Martin Baker - Ejection Seats

Of all the seats the Mk3, the one I was referring to, packed the most punch at 80ft/sec.
The Mk9, Harriers and Jaguars, left the gun before rocket initiation at 64 ft/sec.

As described in the preamble the Mk3 was designed for high tailed aircraft like the Javelin and the V aircraft. An early Valiant test flight ended in with fatal results when one of the ejectees hit the tailplane with a lesser powered seat.

Some interesting facts one discovers. The Mk 3 seat had a minimum weight requirement of 70.4 kilos/155lbs; so as I then weighed 145lbs in my flying kit and lifejacket I was below the permitted weight to fly in the seat. I wonder how many lightweight co-pilots like me knew that; and how fast would we go off the end of the gun?

I believe there was a quasi official procedure on the Javelin. Because of its high tail and delta wing control could be lost in the pitching plane. In the ensuring superstall or spin the navigator was ejected and with luck the recoil would push the nose down sufficiently to restore clean air to the tailplane.

I know of an occasion in India where this was successful.

Ejector Seat Rig
 

- and here it is in use at Church Fenton in 1971. I was there and watched this but I am not one of the studes who tried it out. Someone may recognise themselves. Sorry I couldn't copy the images so you'll have follow the link. Some nice YUAS Chipmunk photos too. Ah, the memories! The big red handle on the right was, IIRC, to wind down the poor sod after he'd been fired up the rig.

::: rafchurchfenton.org.uk :::

Go to Photo Gallery and Yorkshire UAS/9 AEF Part 3

Ditto - around the same time. Great fun!

Here they are DeepestSouth

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/johnfarley/1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/johnfarley/2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/johnfarley/3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/johnfarley/4.jpg

Nice Boots!
 

Amazing!! He changed his boots for the official items on the way up!!!!

In my experience we pilots queued up in fear and trepidation as we anticipated our turn. Each chaps "Bang!" made us feel a little worse. Then after strapping in and getting ready, pulled down the blind, hardly heard the bang and then heard the "click..Click..CLICK" of the ratchet as the seat slowed to a stop near the top of the tower. Moving the blind off the face revealed a great view and one would then wave to the chaps below in the queue. Then.....

Most of us queued up again to have another go...this time the queue was full of animated happy chatter!

I was on Venoms at the time and we only had the one cartridge on our seats as there was no high central fin to clear...The training seat cartridge was the same as the Venom's.

SLLC and Lightning Mate

Not withstanding the excellent website referenced by Fareastdriver, and others, although arguably slightly off topic, I (for one) would be interested in hearing how you got your respective ties. With 3000 hrs on bang/rocket seats and no ride, I have often wondered what it actually is like, the thought process to pulling the handle, and memories of the whole thing.

Are you happy to share, either on this or thru' pms?

30 mRad

Some interesting anecdotes for you to be getting on with 30m. http://www.ejectionsite.com/estories.htm

Agreed would be educational to hear some first hand stories about the thought process leading to pulling the handle.

TH, what I meant was that Hollywood's idea of rigorous training seemed quite extreme until I remembered being dragged behind a 4 ton truck over snow or behind an ML until told we could release etc etc.

While we remember the lessons we tend to forget the pain :)

Did mine at North Luffenham in the 80s. We had a game going at the time where everyone on the course had an ace and if anyone showed it everyone else had to within 10s or it cost a round.

The look on one mates face as he pulled the handle just as everyone got their aces out, as he got to the top of the tower he was wriggling like bu@@er to get the card out of his pocket. A top few pints in Oakham followed.

I think petermcleland reply sums it up best
Though I would have said clack rather than click and about 7 of them then clunk. I can barely recall any bang but all the clacks from my ride at Thorney circa '58.
I think sitting on something live focussed one's mind on the procedure rather class room talks. Keep your elbows tuck in! Perhaps I didn't keep my head pressed firmly enough back which might explain later cervical problems.

The thought process goes something like this.................All of a sudden the earth gets very big and one gets very frightened!

Oh S**t I think its time to leave!!:ok:

Some of us had to ride it all the way to the bottom and make the inevitable crash as survivable as possible, twice.

@ 30mrad
 

Coming up to 56 years since my "live ride" out of an on-fire Venom 1. As far as thoughts and procedures and so forth go, when that big RED light comes on during aerobatics, you get right way up smartish, do the checks (equally smartish) and then - if it's time to go, it's time to go Smartish too.
That do you, or do you want more psychological 'elf 'n safety analysis stuff ? Didn't have any of that then, and I'm always grateful to the people at MB ...