Of course it's not fair. Made me sit up in shock, to be honest, this news...if the flying race aren't safe from the axe, then no-one is. It seems especially unfair because of the investment made on all sides - the taxpayer, the RAF and those who have invested their hopes and talents in the RAF.

It's also not fair that the executives of bust banks have been bailed out and are walking away with millions after failing again. It's also not fair that there are 650-odd MPs and plenty of peers sitting on plush leather and sucking the taxpayers' nipple.

Just because it isn't fair, doesn't mean that it cannot happen, as is unfolding.

Equally, you may have some redress under law. In times past, there may have been notions of 'loyalty' to the Service...hmm. So, seek whatever legal avenues are open to you, along with others if required, taking expert advice. Redundancies will happen regardless, but the employer can be made to compensate the employee if it wasn't handled properly, and the only way that businesses, managers and leaders actually learn is from financial penalties (if indeed they do). And you have yourself to look out for as well, most importantly....no-one else will.

For me this sums up the difference between the Air Force that I joined and the one that I left recently, although Hachet Harry may just be fishing. I hope I didn't just take "a living" from what I did during my time. When I joined the Services, I saw it as a lifetime commitment. I didn't wonder what would happen tomorrow; I worked towards being operational and then becoming productive as a supervisor and trainer and took it as it came. If Her Majesty said go; I went. As I progressed, I didn't agree with all the policy; I muttered in my cups over much of it. I changed some of it but most of these youngsters are not so lucky. What is being forced on them is a job.

If that is the way we are going, then lets see revised terms of service. It will then be a brave PM who questions those who choose not to offer the "ultimate sacrifice" as those who have gone before have been prepared to offer. Is it a job or are we serving the Nation? The two are not the same!

It may be approaching decision time for many. Do those who still care choose service or self preservation? I do hope I'm not being over melodramatic.

Geehovah, I couldn't agree more!

As far as Pilots go (and I do know that many other loyal servicemen/women have been equally shafted by SDSR, if not more so), the RAF must come up with an 'equivalence' proposal which can ease transition to civil flying. There are 2 distinct issues here:

1. SDSR
2. EASA part-FCL

The first issue means that many highly talented pilots will be out of a military flying appointment. Any sensible airline of quality will bend over backwards to attract them as they are infinitely better future employees than pilots who have never been aptitude tested. But the second issue is something which the RAF owes to all its pilots to accommodate and which is also a significant recruiting and retention incentive - which, although not crucial right now, most surely will be in a few years' time!

Good luck; I know darn well that pretty well 100% of those chopped at Valley of late are of much higher quality than I ever was. I just had to know how to keep a Gnat airborne for 50 min without killing myself - you've had vastly more complex mission profiles to cope with.

Interestingly, I heard yesterday that the dumbing down of core skills has now trickled through to CFS. It seems that a large number of skills which any military pilot used to have are now having to be re-taught to some CFS students. To which I have to say "I told you this would happen!"...:mad:

Geehovah

An eloquent post. The "Harrier chap" had served in Afghanistan adding to his angst when responding to PM who like others likes to portray himself as being 100% "behind the troops" but then has no problem in dispensing with them once their purpose has been served! No change there I suppose, it's what we have always done.:mad:

Has anyone noticed that the no campaign (David Cameron's view) to any change in the voting system now uses a poster showing a soldier and the cost of body armour as compared to a voting paper and the cost of a change from first past the post. Politics aside how crass. Do they think the Public is that stupid to believe there is any connection.

The boarding requirement for QHI's applying to CFS(H) was lowered from Above Average to High Average a couple of years ago.

To date the output from CFS(H) has been broadly comparable [on the mighty wokka], but it is a retrograde step forced by high dilution levels and poor manning rather than any improvement in the quality of line pilots.

Ultimately, it is another of the checks and balances that have been removed due to the over-riding requirement to fight 'the' war.

Ah but don't you think that the overarching paradigm shifts that has caused this situation is underpinned in the sands of time and our strategic staircase we know as CFS is ready to lower its standards?

I'd have to examine the delta on that, brainstorm it, and get back to you.

More management babble !

And why ?

Does that mean they will do it for every other trade group being shafted ? For that matter, every other public servant ?

Sorry to say it, but if you think a pair of wings ( or even a brave attempt to get them ) gives you a special right then get real and welcome to employment in the 21st century :cool:

Not at all, I'm just pointing out the elephant in the room.

Tripe! Why?

A looooong time ago. c1997 actually.

Like I said, I didn't intend to come over as heartless, but at the same time, I'm not a politician, so don't have to say just what people WANT to hear. As Geehover pointed out, it most certainly is a different Air Force to the one we joined; certainly more corporate, financially and capability aware. We would love to think that the Services still offer a career for life. Sadly few if any careers these days do. We can either whine about it and consider ourselves hard done by, or we can accept the reality and embrace the opportunities that change offers.

The Gorilla
So why does it say "Redundancy" on my F856 and do I also have to pay back my redundancy payment. I was not TUPE'd as you put it. What makes you think that you know what happened to me?
As for TUPE, I would suggest you read up on that before shouting the odds
Acas - Transfer of undertakings (TUPE)

Not saying you are wrong, but it may well have gone back up after 97.