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-   -   Vulcans - rear crew disabling pilots ejector seats in flight (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/438906-vulcans-rear-crew-disabling-pilots-ejector-seats-flight.html)

Pontius Navigator 2nd Feb 2016 13:49

T O, rings a bell. Beyond that ,nothing.

Old Speckled Aircrew 2nd Feb 2016 16:02

I think T O has triggered my memory and it was the insertion or non-insertion of the pin in the seat bottle that activated the firing.

Pontius Navigator 2nd Feb 2016 16:10

OSA, enabled, not activated , I hope ��

Old Speckled Aircrew 2nd Feb 2016 16:24

Soz P N I'm tired. I've been up since 10 this morning, but I don't think I made a spelling mistake.

Lokwyr 12th Feb 2019 21:28

Originally Posted by Old-Duffer (Post 6167812)
I also seem to recall a Harrier at Yeoviton (?) where the display pilot forgot to put the pins in and the seat fired as he was leaving the aircraft. Think this was mid-'80s but not sure.O-D

1986. Happened right in front of me. After excellent display flight, aircraft returned to its allotted parking space. Pilot stood on seat, waiting for the ladder,and inadvertently trod on seat pan handle with fatal result.
That sight dissuaded my son from a flying career.

charliegolf 13th Feb 2019 10:53

Originally Posted by Lokwyr (Post 10388143)
1986. Happened right in front of me. After excellent display flight, aircraft returned to its allotted parking space. Pilot stood on seat, waiting for the ladder,and inadvertently trod on seat pan handle with fatal result.
That sight dissuaded my son from a flying career.

Was it at Aschafenburg?


ShyTorque 13th Feb 2019 11:07

Originally Posted by charliegolf (Post 10388570)
Was it at Aschafenburg?


CG, There was an earlier, almost identical accident with a Harrier display pilot in Germany (I thought it was at 'Auf Den Dumpel' though - might be wrong; it's a very long time ago).

charliegolf 13th Feb 2019 11:41

Aschaffenburg was a different one, now I've checked. That was the one that had a fatality in the crowd hit by the seat- the pilot was ok. Dumpel- I think I was on the Puma display there, and the Harrier went off without a hitch.


morton 13th Feb 2019 11:46

Rear crew seat pins.

I don’t recall any rear seat pins. What I do recall is a Corporal Nav Inst getting his legs trapped under the table after accidentally inflating the Nav Plotters assist cushion. The Nav Plotters seat only went fore and aft whereas the outboard seats could swivel and the seat inflation was accompanied by the seat back tilting forward to push the occupants up and out of the seat.

As he was working on his own he was there for some time before anyone knew of his predicament. Don’t know how he was extricated but it probably involved a sharp knife into the offending cushion. As a by-the-way he never wore a watch and used to set the GPI 6 to 360 Knots and used the Miles and 10ths of a mile counter for the minutes and seconds for timing of whatever he was doing. Very clever I thought as a new Liney at Cottesmore in the late 60’s.

1208 13th Feb 2019 12:02

Ashaffenurg, if memory serves the pilot was told to eject by the tower due to the engine fire. A spectator was killed when he took pictures of the seat returning to earth. The front fuselage was undamaged and removed from the rest of the aircraft for display in the uk

Pontius Navigator 13th Feb 2019 12:39

Morton, I think there was a safety pin for the rear crew booster cushions. Just one of those automatic procedures that sink into the subconscious.

Barksdale Boy 13th Feb 2019 12:58

I think not but with the same proviso as you.

Yellow Sun 13th Feb 2019 15:31

Quote from the Aircrew Manual:

Pins are provided for the assistor cushion bottles To make the bottles operative the navigator/plotter's pin must be removed and the other two must be inserted.
Where was the plotter's pin stowed? I can't remember at all.


The Oberon 13th Feb 2019 17:47

Originally Posted by Yellow Sun (Post 10388841)
Quote from the Aircrew Manual:

Where was the plotter's pin stowed? I can't remember at all.


From the operating handle a sleeved cable went to a U shaped bracket, this bracket was secured to the operating sear of the gas bottle by a pip pin. When disabled the pin was removed preventing the handle from operating the bottle. As I remember it there was no stowage for the removed pins. The pins were attached to a short wire lanyard the other end of which was secured to the seat frame.

Pontius Navigator 13th Feb 2019 19:07

BB, it was a l o n g time ago.


Tankertrashnav 15th Feb 2019 00:05

Wondering if the Victor had a different arrangement for the rear crew cushions. I just recall pulling a knob upwards whch activated the air bottle. No recollection of having to remove a pin - but as P - N says it was a long time ago, and memory is definitely unreliable.

Pontius Navigator 15th Feb 2019 08:36

TTN, I think the only difference from the Vulcan was 3 swivel seats. I know the K2 had 3 seats in 1984, didn't they remove a seat when up that went to single nav; just a very vague memory.

lsh 15th Feb 2019 09:36

My recollection of Aschaffenburg (In RAFG but not present) was:

Water injection motor exploded, causing power reduction whilst in hover.
(I think that event also damaged the engine? Believe Navy Harrier had a mod to armour the pump?)

Attempted to roll the a/c on, an outrigger broke, he ejected at some angle as wing hit ground.
Certainly, his buddy in the tower - who had direct comms - called him to eject, there were flames not visible to pilot.
The flames "caught up" with the aircraft rapidly, enveloping it.
George Blackie (RIP), the Puma display pilot, was on the ground watching with the Harrier pilot's wife!
It did not look good, George turned her away, rapidly.

As we know, thankfully that bit all worked well and the pilot (NG?) was fine, despite the unfavourable angle involved.
NW, the Puma Crewman (who is on the forum) ran to secure the seat.
It was past the end of the main crowd line - the gent was very unlucky indeed to have picked that spot and then have the seat land on him.


threeputt 15th Feb 2019 09:51

I definitely don't remember a safety pin on my seat cushion during my two Nav Rad tours on the beast. However, there was the story of a crew "dealing" with their captain who decided it would be a good idea to try and descend below Safety Alt, whilst IMC, in Goose Bay :mad: . I wonder who that was?

Tankertrashnav 15th Feb 2019 11:17

P - N it was after my time, but one seat was removed and the remaining nav seat had a rail which allowed it to slide across between the radar/plotter positions. I have to confess that the tanker nav radar's job was not the most demanding in the RAF, but in our defence we did a reasonable number of single nav trips when tanking was not going to be involved, such as air tests, pilots' instrument rating flights etc. I'm guessing that single nav in the final years of the K2 must have been quite busy at times.

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