How do you deal with the piracy - easy:

1. ban the Spanish and French deep-sea fishermen who've destroyed the stocks in the Somali Basin to the point where the Somali fishermen had no other way of making money.

2. if you really cared enough, do some proper Comprehensive Approach type stuff on Somaliland, in order to create a little bit of stability and peace in the area. This would probably include annoying the majority of the countries neighbouring Somali.

3. in a very targeted way, go and blow up bits of the pirate camps. Make them realise that piracy is not in their interest. This message will only have credibility if 1 & 2 are followed through on. If they can't earn a living doing what they used to do, why should they stop being pirates? Unless you want to execute every black person on the high seas, in the Somali Basin, in a skiff, the cost/benefit analysis of being a pirate (in the absence of any other work) will always flop on the side of being a pirate.

4. let the shipping companies deal with any other residual piracy. If they want us to do something about it, then they follow our rules - not ignore them and scream bloody murder when one of their ships is taken. Having seen low free-board, slow speed ships take the shortest route from the Bab el-Mendeb to an East African port, in order to save a little bit of time (and thus money), I have little sympathy if they are taken.

LT, you've just asked far more questions than you've answered. I can only assume that you havent got a solution yourself, you just like criticising those who think that they do.

At least Alfred The Great actually came up with something in a subsequent post. It might make uncomfortable reading for some, but at least it came up with something.

Oh I'm sorry I didn't realise asking and listening were pariahs. Interesting new rules on debate, learning and decision making you having going there.

How big is the area of sea that has to be patrolled as it is under risk from pirates?

How many pirate attacks last year?

How many vessels are potential targets?

How many (coordinated) resources are available to police & protect this area & number of targets?

How long is the coast from which pirate attacks can be launched?



Lets try with a bit of thinking instead of hoping the Russians come along and blow stuff up for us eh?

How big is the area of sea that has to be patrolled as it is under risk from pirates?
Over 1 million sq miles, including areas of the red sea, down to the tanzanian coast, to nearly the coast of India

How many pirate attacks last year?

Too many

How many vessels are potential targets?

Unknown, as they will take on any vessel, from a sailing yacht to oil tankers, and as it is one of the main shipping choke points in the world, there are alot of targets

How many (coordinated) resources are available to police & protect this area & number of targets?
The NATO vessels, the Chinese, The Indian's, The Russians and a few others. They do not all co-ordinate with each other, as they all have different ROE's. About 20 main war ships (plus supply ships etc)

How long is the coast from which pirate attacks can be launched?

The coast of Somali is about 1300nm long. However the main pirate attacks come from the region known as Punt land. This is the middle bit, between the chaos of the south (mogadisu area), and Somaliland, which borders Djibouti. The south has its own problems, to big to worry about going ship hunting, and Somaliland is a very stable country, and are working hard to stamp out any problems in their area. So it drops down to about 500 nm to watch. But this can be narrowed down alot, as most bases are known.

Dont know any way to slove the problem, but I like alfred the greats plan, seems to make the most sense.

Subsitution of trolling accusation with "I fundamentally disagree".
 

But you're not just asking and listening, LT, you're just moaning and feigning some sort of moral superiority. You're denigrating the opinions of others without offering any alternative.

If the cap fits you wear it.

So - given we have an area too large to patrol, too few resources to patrol effectively with no coordination, a wide range of targets that sail individually & an 'enemy' made up of foot soldiers with little to lose who can launch attacks from even small vessels and whose bosses aren't joining in the actual capture of boats....

Then the 'blow them up' doesn't appear to work.

I agree with Alfred though I'd also have to ask if it is completely out of the question for logistics companies who can tell you where your box is within a container on a ship & who seem to be able to coordinate their rates fairly well to be able to coordinate their ships in some way? So that the protection resource has less of an area and less potential victims to look after. If countries can not coordinate protection then those countries might have to consider how they are going to arm ships that pass through the area & if it is not worth while putting some form of security on the ships? Isn't that their responsibility?

Now that seems naive and expensive - but how expensive is it to pay ransoms and have crew held captive and expensive ships under the control of criminals? This didn't start this week - it's being going on for years. We hear how airlines and air transportation have had to pay and suffer inconvenience to deal with risks - so what are shipping lines doing?

I would advise anyone sailing in the area to fly a Russian flag. I would also ask the Royal Navy why they can't give the Somali pirates a very big smack whenever they get the chance.
If 17th century pirating laws still apply then use them!

Human Rights? Worse thing ever devised IMHO. Simply a series of laws to suit the criminal and not the innocent. Thanks Cherie for your contribution to the "advancement" of civilisation. :rolleyes:

That's a bit selective innit? Go have a read of a bit of Thomas Paine. The human rights most people object to are only the ones that they themselves take for granted and no longer value as familiarity had bred contempt.

aviate 1138

The members of the National Socialist Workers Party in Germany adopted the sort of approach that you recommend. My late Father would not talk about the discoveries made when they liberated places like Bergen Belsen.

Just how many "errors of judgement", misidentifications, false witness statements or dislike of a persons colour do you think it is acceptable to turn into "Gospel Truth" as to a persons guilt or innocence?

Load Toad
What ever happened to the "can do" attitude of the British / the typical military person / officer who seems to frequent this forum ?

I lost count of the negatives in your second last post.

LT - I think what you are suggesting in your 4th para is....a convoy system. With appropriate escort vessels & helos/ mpa.

Absolutely.

When someone stops a smash [massive axe] and grab [£40,000] raid on a jewellers, wrestles the grabber to the ground and hands him over when the police arrive and then gets bound over for two years for aggravated assault [or similar] while the thief is allowed to claim compensation for his damaged shoulder apparently the law favours the criminal and a citizen doing his duty is given a criminal charge! He was being threatened with a huge axe before he floored the crook but once again Human Rights favoured the criminal and not someone doing his best to help society.

I am only against those Human Rights which allow crooks to manipulate said rights to their own ends.

aviate 1138

Let us have the FULL facts (not a selected abbreviation of the "facts") in the case you are apparently quoting so that we can make up our own minds.

Moreover, do we take it that you were actually in Court for the trial and heard all the witness statements first hand - or was it a conversation in the village Pub after a couple of Pints?

I only ask because I have not seen (or heard of) any media reports of such an occurrence - and being retired I have plenty of time to peruse the media.

In short, I find your assertions specious to say the least.

russians send a clear message to terrorist, may it be somalia, chechnya, lebanon or in russia, liquidation is the only option

Can do with what?

If more countries aren't involved then it's merely a token gesture.

Apparently organization between countries and shipping lines is 'difficult' so it seems allowing it to go on is not a sufficient hit on risk to pursue alternatives. Apart from blowing people up and risking outcomes like happened at Beslan. But that's OK cos it ain't your kin that get it.

I guess I'll be accused of being a troll simply because I have a different view, I'm cool with that - I'm a troll then.

Have a look at the last five days worth of piracy incidents.

http://www.icc-ccs.org/home/piracy-r...-piracy-report

Bear in mind, these reports are over just five days.

Looking at the footage of the Chandlers release recently, I was struck by two things:
1. The 'shanty town' appearance of the homes of the 'pirates'.
2. The quantity of 'brand new' 4x4 vehicles parked outside the homes.

I don't have an answer to what could be done to stop the piracy (well, I do, but it is non-PC for me to suggest it). To help, I will say, "When in Rome (pirate land), do what the Romans (pirates) do". I hope you get the drift? (or adrift?).

I'm with Alfred the Great on this one. Unless we tackle the roots of the problem we are wasting our time. The ship owners and the Somalian 'Mr Bigs' in all know that its cheaper to pay the ransoms than risk having an RPG through the side of a tanker. Arming merchant ships is still likely to result in more death, injury and detruction to their crews and cargoes on them than the ship owners are willing to tolerate.

Given that the pirates have already tried to hijack a US navy vessel, they are obviously not the brightest candles on the birthday cake, and for America to throw them into a US jail for life is just going to cost the US taxpayers a lot of money, whilst Mr Big just recruits the next lot of poverty-stricken teenagers willing to try anything.

Capturing one or two of the Mr Bigs, so they can have the error of their ways pointed out to them, or taking them out with a UAV if there is enough evidence against them, together with making every effort to improve life for Joe Average in Somalia is the only way this will stop. Of course it isn't easy, otherwise it would already have been done.

Cruise Ships go to Somalia
 

Some friends of mine are going on a cruise next week and one of the ports of call is Djibouti. Yemen was also on the schedule but that has been cancelled since the bomb scares from that region. I understand that Djibouti is quite a common port for cruise ships and I find that puzzling to say the least.

All the duty free traders in Aden moved to Djibouti when Khormaksar closed.

Cruise ships bring people with dollars to spend while visiting (however short the visit). Common sense decrees don't mess with a regular income. Most likely it's safer from the ships operator perspective to schedule a visit which, in effect, will most likely grant some sort of 'protection' than chugging past the place. Just musing on my part.