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Originally Posted by bad_bear
So I guess that is the problem. Someone had to take a view on how likely it would be signed off in the time scale available, if the answer was " it could take some time" the current government would be left with only one decision. What would be the point in finishing off the whole production run of aeroplanes only to find 3 years later someone cannot sign them off as fit for flight because it is thought that one of the primary systems might have a risk of failure and requires all the planes gutted and refitted?
The world has changed. Its not anybodies fault the Nimrod just got zapped by the risk of litigation. Who could reasonably argue with the logic? bb |
Originally Posted by xv227
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBernoulli I'd be interested to know why MoD spent so much money on still using that "pressure shell". Why? It is a piece of ancient de Havilland history. Apart from the politics already mentioned here, is there any good reason why the MoD was still dicking about with a Comet fuselage? An inevitable waste of time and money, surely? Leaving aside (for now) the issue as to whether or not it was a good idea to use a modified Nimrod design in the first place, the reason for using the 'old' fuselage pressure shell was an attempt to save money. The techniques used to build it originally are no longer available. So you would have had to redesign the fuselage from scratch - it may externally resembled a Nimrod, but would have had 90s build technology and had to be built with 90s standards as well. And would you design a new aircraft to a 1950s design? In terms of the cancellation, don't overlook the purely political element - if we are to beleive the press coverage, the decision to cancel we made by Cameron himself. He would have wanted to have a big ticket/cost item to cancel as an example of Labour/MOD waste - and found the carriers were too tightly contracted to do so (word was he would have cancelled CVF2 in a heartbeat). So he could stand up in the House of Commons and say 'You wasted ŁXB on this - we're not going to waste a penny more.' Then XV230 happened! |
Bannock
Sorry mate, but a whole range of options were put forward to be considered, but none were acceptable to MoD who seem to be under strict instructions to 'get rid' as soon as possible. |
Bannock
I hate to ask, but is there a possibility that someone had built a ticking bomb and needed to get rid quick. Thus preventing BAEs already tarnished reputation becoming one of being a global joke. BAE Systems PLC – Business Update 21 Oct 2010 | Ref. 242/2010 BAE Systems plc has today issued its interim management statement for the period from 1 July 2010 to 20 October 2010... ...Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) • The business is planned on conservative assumptions and although the detail behind the changes identified by the SDSR will take some time to refine, the removal of a number of uncertainties with regard to our UK business is welcomed. The B Word |
Request of Hanfimar
Hanfimar,
Any chance of letting us know what MOD say by way of reply? :ok: DFM over & out |
Request by DFM - Open Letter to the PM
Yes DFM, as the letter was open, as soon as I receive a reply I will post it here.
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the removal of a number of uncertainties with regard to our UK business is welcomed. "Now we know that we have to make 1400 people (at least) redundant... gee thanks!" |
AOC 1 Gp comments
Interesting comments attributed to AOC 1 Gp in the press this weekend.
Just a thought, but wouldn’t it be appropriate if we now had something from AOC 2 Gp as well, just to show solidarity. Maybe he could bemoan the loss of the MRA4 and an entire operational capability and explain why he is also rightly worried as hell........just so long as he doesn’t scare the public with the truth mind! := DFM over & out |
Still shocked by this decision and just re-read this; paid particular attention to the last 3 paragraphs :
BAe Nimrod MRA4 |
Here's to Burns night,Guernsey,Rum Punch,Dogfish,JMC,Starfish,SAR trails, Mexies..etc
Here’s to a Happy Hogmanay at RAF Kinloss:D
I sincerely hope everyone at ISK has a Hootenanny Hogmanay and that 2011 brings a settlement that suits the majority…I for one want out of this circus… and it really, really upsets me to say that. To all of the many good people that it has been my good fortune to work with: my best wishes to the most professional, honest, humorous and caring people you could ever wish to meet; quite simply the best! Take care and remember the good times. We all know that a crime has been committed and only time will expose the culprits.........but thanks to the 1SL for making honest comment on this travesty...and how ironic. DFM over & out. |
I'm gutted the MRA4 is getting the chop and as a maritime nation its got to be the stupidest decision ever made. If the public were only aware of the true cost of this I'm sure there would be an outcry.
Anyway my reason for posting in this thread is to confirm scrapping has started and all the airframes will be gone by the end of February and Woodford will close almost immediately. The airframes are being cut up into chunks that can fit on low loaders and trucked out of Woodford and disposed of at a MOD designated recycling plant. I dont know whats happening to the frames at Warton. There are also 120 BMW Rolls-Royce BR710 engines sitting at Woodford which no doubt will go back to the manufacturers at a give away price (its only tax payers money :mad: ) to be recycled for BizJet use. I'll post anymore info as I get it. |
The old MR2 wings and fuselages were constructed before the days of CAD / CAM and were built in jigs and then mated by tradesmen hammering & filing the metal to fit as necessary – as a result each fuselage was slightly different, in some cases by up to 4 inches.
Golly, 4 inches? That was a lot of hammering and filing. |
It is not the fact that there were dimensional differences that was a problem. That is a minor technical and programme risk common to many aircraft that, as long as you recognise it, can be dealt with easily. The initial problem is recognising it. MoD and BAeS got over that on Day 1.
The real problem (in this case) was no-one listened to the experts, primarily RAF and civvy engineers in MoD(PE) whose wailing and nashing of teeth could be heard throughout St Giles Court. Importantly, you have to take a broader view. What else was happening in that particular area of MoD(PE) at the time? Under the same 2 Star the other cock-up of the century, Chinook HC Mk3, was taking root. Same problem. Experienced (i.e. junior) RAF and civvy staffs saying "This is madness" and being ignored. This is not a coincidence. MoD claim these events to be isolated and unrelated. There should be a joint inquiry. Same people involved after all. Then we'll see if they are unrelated. |
Originally Posted by manccowboy
(Post 6152012)
I'm gutted the MRA4 is getting the chop and as a maritime nation its got to be the stupidest decision ever made. If the public were only aware of the true cost of this I'm sure there would be an outcry.
Anyway my reason for posting in this thread is to confirm scrapping has started and all the airframes will be gone by the end of February and Woodford will close almost immediately. The airframes are being cut up into chunks that can fit on low loaders and trucked out of Woodford and disposed of at a MOD designated recycling plant. I dont know whats happening to the frames at Warton. There are also 120 BMW Rolls-Royce BR710 engines sitting at Woodford which no doubt will go back to the manufacturers at a give away price (its only tax payers money :mad: ) to be recycled for BizJet use. I'll post anymore info as I get it. |
Is any of the aircraft still parked outside at Woodford? Thought I might take a detour past Woodford to take some pics if it's not already too late.
What a wretched start to the New Year (scrapping the jets, I mean, rather than me being a sad spotter, but you could argue it either way!). |
There's 2 parked near the paint sheds, they are not due to start cutting for another couple of weeks yet as they are concentrating on taking hardware, engines etc etc out of the nearly finished frames (maybe hoping for a last minute reprieve from this madness)
Most of the guys are nearly in tears :sad: |
IT'S A FUC#ING DISGRACE!!!
Cameron should be ashamed of himself :ugh: UKIP get my X from now on! MadMark!!! :mad: [Sorry for the language, but this REALLY annoys me] |
Agree strongly!!!
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BAe got paid a lot to do stuff, and have got to the point where BAe will have had most of the dosh for a failed system. You can't really blame BAe for that, nor the CS type who doubtless chaired the meetings - the RAF should have had competent engineers (and, dare I suggest, the odd aircrew type) onboard to ensure BAe stayed honest.
Having seen a project managed by a senior (ish) CS type, ably supported by a senior (ish) RAF officer or two, it used to completely do my head in to see various small parties take advantage of the setup to score themselves paltry gains whilst letting the contractor away with whatever they wanted. Put competent bums on seats, preferably slightly awkward ones who will ask awkward questions and insist on awkward standards being met, and rubbish like this wouldn#t happen in the first place. FWIW Cameron is probably no worse than anyone else - he's trimming fat that doesn't exist, and personally I think there are many areas of fat still to be trimmed before defence, but he's no worse than any other politician. They're all scum, of course, but Cameron's no worse than the rest... I'd rather be a pimp than an MP! Dave |
photographs required
MCB,
You said: “The airframes are being cut up into chunks that can fit on low loaders and trucked out of Woodford and disposed of at a MOD designated recycling plant. I dont know whats happening to the frames at Warton. There are also 120 BMW Rolls-Royce BR710 engines sitting at Woodford which no doubt will go back to the manufacturers at a give away price (its only tax payers money) to be recycled for BizJet use.” Any chance of getting some photographs for the coroner’s report? I sincerely hope we have all available evidence to present to the public when this crime comes back to bite us! := DFM over & out |
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