From Con Coughlin in the Telegraph: If we can afford to bail out Ireland, we can afford to keep Ark Royal and the Harriers

RN, we want it all, we want it now, otherwise we'll scream and scream and scream
 

It seems the RN want Harriers, shiny new CVs, JSF, T45, SSN, SSBN, Nimrod, new helicopters etc etc. Does the RN propose to give up anything it actually owns/funds? mmmmm no seems to be the answer. As for regenerating the capability to mount carrier operations, we the Americans, Japanese, Spanish, Russians, Indians etc all managed to build a carrier capability from nothing the first time around, I don't see why we can't do it again. I'm sure our allies/friends operating carriers will lend us a hand when the time comes.

Have you been living on another planet? The RN has been savagely over the last decade.

Another Telegraph link: HMS Ark Royal: Their final mission

It seems that the Harrier GR9 support contracts with BAE Systems and Rolls Royce do (did?) contain cancellation clauses - see here.

The Harrier GR.9 and Nimrod MRA.4 projects carry the biggest risk to the MoD, he said. BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce signed support contracts worth GBP574 million and GBP198 million respectively for the RAF/Royal Navy Harrier force only last year. Both contracts have eight years left to run, so the MoD will likely face a substantial bill to compensate the companies for their termination.

I don't think our Prime Minister is very good with details, like how to retain the skills to run carrier operations, or what happens should unexpected events occur. Good at the PR stuff though, although not good enough to win a majority in the election

And Navy News reports the last take off from Ark Royal: Harriers pay 'emotional' farewell to Yeovilton

Ark Royal Final Mission
 

- Harriers routed into Spade with 80 minutes play time - to work with Forward Air Controllers undertaking Combat Ready Assessment prior to deploying on Operations

- I would qualify that as a 'Mission' ?

Regt52

Well said. :D

What's better, sending the Harrier Force on extended "Gardening Leave" as BigGreenGilbert suggests or squeeze some valuable Air-Land Integration training out of the capability until the end of the year (which is what SDSR called for) plus some PR. Let's face it the Harrier has been a great advert for a British Aircraft Industry (that sadly no longer exists), so why shouldn't it get the opportunity to say "goodbye" along with the flat-tops??

No brainer, really - unless, of course you have no brain!

iRaven

Perhaps an interesting time to start the following debate:

How many controls or hours of support do the land forces need in their work up to Herrick? how many will they now get?

Given that in slack handfuls the air component has never filled all these CAS VULs, to which you can add JFACTSU and SF tasking, what is the plan to replace the harrier contribution which was running far higher than the 30% 'fair share' (Harrier 18 Fear, Tornado 40 - but with the boys deployed) or so of the task at times?

I am not for one second saying keep the harrier. I'm living in the now, I just wonder if the full implications have been appreciated and mitigated against.

Perhaps they could incorporate some (more?) into the 'Tac Weapons' Syllabus (after all a vast majority of the instructors at Valley are soon to be former Harrier pilots ....) and the Tornado OCU.

Granted it may not be working with a 'sensor' in the Tac Wpns side (unless the new Hawk can carry one - I don't know) but I'm assuming that talking eyes on and talking a sensor on is similar (although I stand to be corrected!).

You will be, with quotes like that! :}

Of course the repercussions of losing the majority supplier of CAS trg to Land has been considered, but I guess it was deemed not a large enough factor.

I wonder if some of the tasking could be taken up by the private sector? :oh:

jocky

Fair point, I was thinking of it from a very parochial pov.:O

Will a private company also provide aircraft to provide experience of working with aircraft on a carrier deck?

This week, the Prime Minister was willing to devote several days of his time, and £15 million of public funds to the unsuccesful bid to hold the 2018 Football World Cup. Priorities?

WE Branch Fanatic

The WC brings $ into the country, I don't think you can compare the two.

I am not saying that the Harriers etc should have been scrapped,
but you can't not bid for something if you want it.

Would the PM have put so much time (and the taxpayer's dough) into the World Cup bid if it hadn't had the same PR aspect to it?

Can other organisations or companies ask the PM to help them bid? Thought not.

Out of interest, anyone know (i) how old the GR9/9A frames are (oldest-newest) and (ii) what the intended disposal route is?

Any truth in the rumour that the RN are going to fund the re-introduction of the GR9 manned by reservists? Would make perfect sense to me

Vec

Today's Telegraph had an article along these lines by Thomas Harding, but I cannot find it on the website.

Navy wants reservist Harrier force
 

WBF

That'll be this article:

Counting them all out - Telegraph :ok:

Love to see it happen but somehow doubt it will.:sad:

Reserve GR9s for fun and games?

No chance. It would mean effectively keeping all of the engineering and infrastructure costs with the savings being only on the number of hours flown. And with all due respect to the Bona-Mates out there, how many hours are you going to need to be safe, let alone combat ready?

Not going to happen.

S41

Farewell to the people's fighter jet then!:sad:

FB

... Since Lusty has been chosen over Ocean for the axe then there would be little point as it wouldn't get to sea