RAF on Radio 4 Now
 

0905 17.08.10 whats the use of the RAF debate live now for 30 mins could be worth a listen. On Radio 4

I don't think this was one of Quentin Lett's better efforts, because he's normally very good. Superficial approach and paying too much attention to Max Hastings and other 'defence' journos, who are known for their pro-army, anti-RAF stance. A better balance of views would have made more impact.

It's on again this evening at 21.30
BBC - BBC Radio 4 Programmes - What's the Point of ..., Series 3, The RAF

I mentioned it a few days ago but the mods merged my thread with an existing one so it kinda got buried................:sad:

Doesn't seem to be destined for BBC iPlayer

Good point.

Mr Nichol, Sir; I know you read this stuff. Given some of the bone questions you were given, I think you presented the light blue case very well. I suspect some other salient points you may have made may have been edited out.

I think yer man Collins, T, was predictable but I was surprised that, at the tail of the programme, he was quite balanced an almost supportive of a new and developed Air Force defence role ("cyberwar")

PS

chinook240. You did and it was; and it was a pity.

Nice to know we have "Uninhabited Aerial Vehicles"

But if the next war is to be a cyber-war, doesn't that give problems if we are relying on software to carry out the missions.

Perhaps they'll have to have a pilot on board, just in case.

Well done John Nichol and Clive Loader who provided cogent rebuttal of the specious questioning of the point of having an independent air force. Shame about the highly biased and ill-informed spoutings of the likes of Max Hastings and Tim Collins.

As with many high-ranking members of the army, they seem wilfully ignorant of the true nature of air-power. One only needs to look at the current parlous state of AAC manning and the droves of AAC types now wearing light blue (virtually no one goes the other way) to see the nonsense inherent in the suggestion that the Army could take on any more responsibility for employing the nation's air assets.

Peter,

if the software on a modern a/c was screwed, a pilot would be of little help tbh
-------
I haven't heard the programme but they were bound to be biased towards the view of change, Everyone agreeing "Let's leave all 3 services as they are" would be a boring programme

Peter.
Bearing in mind this was radio 4 , I suppose the word 'unmanned' was not going
to be used, as it is not PC enough!

I love Radio 4, and listen all the time, but any word which would exclude women
would have to go.

Just let it drop, and see how radio 4 are all modern and PC. Oh, perhaps you
could listen to 'womens hour' while you think about it.:E

Colonel Tim Collins....

"The RAF mover system is hopeless"

Sam Kiley

"The existence of the RAF creates a muddle, They work for the Army , they might as well be in it"

"Harrier pilots, RAF mechanics, ...I haven't met a single one who wouldn't be happy to integrate into one single force"

"There is considerable love for Harrier pilots and there is nothing but Awe for Chinook pilots and they all should be part of one force"

....and the Army Mover system isn't? :ugh:

As a retired Pongo I love it when members and former members of the light blue fraternity bluster on pompously about the rest of the Armed Forces being wilfully ignorant of the true nature of air-power as soon as anything negative is said about the RAF.

Having had much to do with all three Services and the central staffs during my checkered career, I tend to the view that knowledge of the doctrine and principles of the other Services is equally thin in every part of the estate. That is why jointery and centralised staff training at higher levels is important.

Clockwork,

Agree with you about the level of ignorance regarding doctrine of the other Services. The difference is that no-one in the RAF is being facile enough to call for the Army to be disbanded and its task given to the other 2 Services!

erm - no :=

errm...yes! ;)

You can get it via the Radio 4 section and then selecting the schedule option

BBC iPlayer - What's the Point of ...: Series 3: The RAF

:ok:

You trying to get my blood pressure back up? How this programme has survived, given that its default setting is that men are either fools or knaves, if not potential rapists, is beyond me :mad:

Back to the thread - Nichol was right when he said we don't know what's in store, but the fact remains we cant afford to prepare for every eventuality, so some tough choices are going to have to be made.

My God! Have just listened to the 'debate' and found it pitiful.

We deserve much better than this from the BBC. This was barely tabloid press stuff. The BBC charter takes another battering.

The army and navy, especially the army, should hang their heads in shame if they even half belief the views expressed by the hacks on the radio broadcast. When I served, there was a strong mutual respect for each others capability and contribution to joint warfare. The BBC reduced a potentially useful debate to the level of jokes about marching and, sadly predictably, used John Nichol as an 'expert' on Air Power. I shall cancel my subscription to the BBC immediately! Oops, I can't.

I really hope we can be better informed by our media and have a grown-up debate on this important review of our armed forces rather than this low grade pap.

Wow! What a concept. You mean it was almost like some progamme scheduler at the BBC had decided to take a sensationalst and thoroughly superficial view of a weighty topical matter in order to generate screaming chav headlines and outrage!

I am shocked, shocked, I tell you.

Where's Fincastle 84 when we need him.
Just to illustrate the point about Senior Army Officers, the venerable Shackleton had a secondary role of trooping. You have all heard the story about the Nav making coffee for the troops huddled down the back....
Well, there was a Staff College visit to the Northernmost reaches of Coastal Command, during which Future Field Officers were being shown around a Mark III Shack, which just happened to have two panniers in the bomb bay.
"What are those?' enquires Colonel Rupert.
"Panniers Sir. We can use them when we are trooping" replies the Sqn Ldr tour guide.
"Oh, splendid. How many twoops can you get into one of those?"
There's no answer to that!

At least he admitted that the RAF can't march so on that basis - cull them and let the Army march, such high ethereal thoughts from someone sensationalised unrealistically.

Unfortunately, seen more RAF co*ks than Army senior officers and down to a much lower level! Watch where you throw stones or which brush you put the tar on with.