How To Reduce Airforce To 31,000
 

The new pension scheme is designed to improve/maintain the numbers of personnel staying to retirement points. If you leave early your lose money in the short term (I am aware we get it back if we live to 65). Why not just let those who wish to go now, go collecting the full gratuity and pension to which they are intitled. This must save money and achieve what is required in terms of natural wastage. I am sure someone will pop up a say the current pension rules are not designed to improve retension but that is the effect. Also reduce flying pay, another retension tool, and get rid of PAS, for which I see little benefit other than retention.

Talking to chaps in the crew room, many would go if they did not loose the 25% of gratuity and pension.

The aircrew, both non-PAS and PAS have different views of the FP and PAS suggestion.

If ever offered I would have to think long and hard about this, would have to do the sums, but initial thoughts are I would off be like a rat up a drain pipe

I would have to thi....., no job done, where do I sign, can someone turn my computer off for me: Doh; forgot, I havn't got one!

PAS: Leave well alone young man it has done its job for many people over a long period of time. Agree with the sentiment of letting loose though; gets my vote.

Flying Pay and PAS are both retention tools... Thats why aircrew get them...

No point spending upwards of 500k training someone to do a job only to let them leave after 3 years return of service.

Out of interest aircrew lose 50% of flying pay when they PVR/NGR as they havn't shown the retention.

The paring down of the rest of the RAF would take the hard work - the (relative) few aircrew to be lost would make far less of an impact.

If we were disolving the RAF (which may be the case in the distant future the way things are going), then you may have a point.

However, although none of us know what's coming, I think the AT/SH fleets, a FJ fleet in some format, and Sentinel etc etc etc are still going to be required for a long time yet.

If you slash flying pay and bin PAS, then who is going to stay and deliver the continued capability?

a. Those that really want to.

b. Those that don't care about the money.

c. Nobody, because the cuts will take effect as the private sector is coming out of recession.

Answers on a postcard to Manning, HQ Air Command, RAF High Wycombe.

Tiger mate. Thank you. Not been called a young man for a while!

minigundiplomat. I guess I am thinking short term. We will soon have many aircrew and others sat around waiting for MRA4 and what ever replaces R1. Better those that wish to be allowed to leave, without penalty, than have them hanging around not delivering anything. In answer to your question, 'who is going to stay and deliver the continued capability?' I fall into the first 2 categories:

a. Those that really want to.

b. Those that don't care about the money.

Cheesey, I know but thats why I joined... in my day we had fun, were not tied down by H&S, JPA, DII and endless, mindless paperwork etc.

I'll get my coat!

Are you serious? Do you honestly think that having let the MR2 and R1 folk walk that you could have any reasonable capability this side of 2020 once the replacement aircraft are on the pan? Have you ANY idea how long it takes to build up the expertise in a role that we've always had to rely on due to our unerring ability to go into every war outnumbered?

Let's just get this straight, for anyone else visiting Pprune before going off to rattle an SDR off before lunch, having a capability on the front line is not just a matter of whisking people from their OCU to the squadron coffee bar - experience counts, and if you encourage all your old gits to leave en masse then your experience level will drop to zero, because it's the old gits who teach the young gits how to be good at their job rather than adequate. In wars it's that extra expertise that's the real force multiplier...

DaveJb

Not a truer word said. In business, one of your competitive advantages over your rival comes from Knowledge. Many businesses get better at what they do and lower their costs from the very process of repetition; people get better at what they do through practice and this in turn lowers the total cost of unit per production cycle.

People who underestimate the power of knowledge and the creation of corporate 'know-how' really should not be in a position of authority. This is what is happening to the RAF.

Davejb Good reply mate those in command and control really have little to no idea about how things work do they? Good luck to all up there next time back in the UK will try and get up there to see you.

And to reinforce the point, in business when you expand you can buy in experience

Sometime soon we'll catch on and realise that we have to generate experience internally and it takes time................. a long time

I am sure that if the RAF carries on pissing about with general niff naff and trivia, showing no concern whatsoever for the people it employs. Then people will walk out of the door and find a career as a Mr, just like I have just done. An easy way to cull numbers. A prime example of planning for today and not tomorrow. Nice one....

....and that the Desk Officers play the numbers game for today with little regard for tomorrow, (because that is someone elses problem) and that forsight, emotion, nostalgia, logic or indeed common sense are not part of the solution. I have heard that 'Last Tour of Duty' is no longer recognised. Sadly I have also heard of Desk Officers looking after their mates which whilst understandable to a point is also well offside.

The quickest way the trim the numbers is to reduce the retirement age. Am I right in thinking that both Army and Navy say goodbye to the majority at age 40? I am sure I heard a starred officer about 2 years ago bleating about a young, fit air force with no regard whatsoever for 'experience'.

As the recession really ends and jobs pick up, I suspect that there will be no need to trim the air force, for I think that the staff will trim it for them.

Outside [of the RAF] is a better place to be.....I enjoyed most of it, but you can keep it!

"many would go if they did not loose the 25% of gratuity and pension"

Under AFPS 05, you do not lose any of your gratuity if you leave early; in fact you get it twice (when you leave and again at 65), so you actually get 200% (untaxed)! This can more than make up for the reduction in pension by 25% (taxed).

davejb.

I am well aware of how you generate and sustain military capability and how long it takes; indeed I have seen 2 sets of DLoD working groups struggle to understand their responsibilities and work out how to finance the necessary changes.

If we are that short of money why not let those who wish to go without penalty, thus freeing up cash for those left behind.

Your comments about experience are spot on but, and it’s a big but, how are you going to keep the experienced folk interested and current if there is no equipment capability. Their experience soon loses its validity. As grimweasel states 'people get better at what they do through practice' for the next few years we will have big gaps everywhere.

Risk Management implies a degree of choice and ability to make decisions on alternate courses of action. Loosing several key capabilities reduces choice and forces reduced options. Thus you become less adaptable, less agile and inflexible.

As far as Nimrod goes, then the simulator during a busy WW3 day has always been a damn good way to keep the grey cells working - whilst a simulator has its limits, so does real life.... it's far easier to put a crew into a tough tactical position in the sim than it is in real life, and a good thrashing in the sim frequently left me feeling rather more wrung out than most real life sorties did. (n hours in 807 attacking the radar buoy, and much of the acoustics training involved firing up ACT anyhow...)

What are folk going to do during the gap? Dunno, obviously the popular move would be a sim slot a week and 6 days off, which I doubt will be the chosen course of action - but if I had to rate good ideas then I'd pick that as better than sending folk to hold as spare guard commanders darn sarf, and holding anywhere as better than encouraging them to retire - when MR4 comes in we'll be needing experienced crews to enable them to get up to speed on the new aircraft, it'd be better if they weren't all doing Higher Landscape Gardening at Moray College at that point.

Fergie, sure - we could have a coffee...errm, well, maybe something a bit stronger....(as long as you don't sing - every time I've been with you in the vicinity of beer you've ended up singing...) PM me when you are in town...

How will you keep the support staff current?

Shocking, how long has this diabolical disservice to their sworn oath been going on? :hmm::rolleyes::hmm:

Why are the RAF still paying flying pay if it is for "retention"? It is not as if ex military aircrew are in any demand in civvy street. Even if you were lucky enough to get a job your pay would be considerably less than Flt Lt level in RAF. The copilots that I fly with get EUR1500 per month. If you think you would get a direct entry captain's job - dream on...

You get paid to be an RAF Officer - not a pilot.