also sold to Thailand as "FruitWine":E

"Natch" Strong Dry Cider Cider

The brand name should work particularly well in Pat Pong. :ooh:


Long may the BBMF fly and remind everyone why they do.

Airpolice

Try Hecks "Kingston Black" - comes from Street in Somerset - wins all the prizes - and is delicious!.................:ok:

Ah, the usual 'tangible cost' versus 'intangible benefit' problem

How many times have folks in this forum trotted out the standard line about accountant "understanding the cost of everything but not understanding the value of anything".

BBMF, UAS, Air Cadets are all cases in point.

I tried to sign but to my shock I find that in spite of the contribution made by No One Sqdn RCAF, and the other Canadians serving in RAF units during the battle, that Canadians are not included in this petition! The logic I supose is that we dont pay for its upkeep, no we dont, but many of us have made contributions to keep such historic aircraft in the air both in the UK and Canada. I am fully aware that the ethnic/social make up of the UK has changed over the years, but to exclude those who came to your country to fight along side Britain during such times is an oversight which I find offensive.{RCAF Retired}

Clunk, I share your annoyance that British Governments show little concern for Canada and understand that you should find it offensive that you are unable to sign this petition.
,
Not so in this case- the petition format and management is administered by the Prime Minister's Office and is on their official web site. Consequently to sign any of the petitions you have to be a British Citizen or resident. Many may disagree with this limitation but I suppose it's something to do with living and voting in theUK. You can be rest assured that if this petition was being administered by the BofBMF or the RAF, all loyal Commonwealth Citizens would be welcomed to sign.:ok:

ROG, Thanks for that explanation, seems like Ten Downing Street like to restrict dissent just as our Prime Ministers Office does over here, be that as it may, it would be worthwhile Im sure if someone involved could get through to them that such a decision would have implications far outside the shores of the UK, as an example on one UK layover I was on three complete Air Canada crews {including the "back end"}spent a day watching the BB flight perform, also each year in Canada the Battle is remembered in ceromonies across our nation.As you may know "Old Gordon", that was of course F/L Gordon Mcgregor RCAF was not only an ace in the Battle but post war rose to be CEO of TCA/Air Canada, an outstanding man to work for!

Nothing to stop overseas residents signing it, and using a UK address/postcode. SW1A 1AA works well, and I'm sure Betty won't mind. It's her Air Force after all.

Why not get rid of the Red Arrows?

Historically significant? I don't think so.

Good recruiting tool? Probably.

Cost effective..........................?

Corperate Direction
 

The UK PLC has lost its direction this is because the leasons of the past have been forgotten and dropped like a cigarette end in favour of the bean counters who can tell you he cost of everything and know the value of nothing.

Lets look at two notionaly national airlines and the way thet view the past, British Airways let the staff restore a HS Trident to prestine condition and then told them if they did not remove it from the premisis they would have it cut up.

Lufthansa backs the staff effort to run a historic flight and uses it for publicity, they are even about to get a Conie on line!

BA sells its staff flying club

Lufthansa encourages its staff by making flying affordable for its staff with flying clubs at all main bases.

BA is about to go to the wall with industral strife looming.

Lufthansa is one of the expanding players in the airline market.

This all says to me that the value of the BBMF cant be measured by numbers on a balance sheet, it is at the very heart of what the Royal Air Force stands for and without it and its links to the past the RAF will slowly fall apart.................. Just like the UK's once proud airline.

But may be that is the price to pay for a Nu labia goverment.

The director now cuts to the Disband the RAF thread.

I served with BBMF for 3 seasons in the late 90's. I can not over emphasise what an honour and a priviledge it was to display the Lancaster, show veterans around and hear stories from days when the world was in a much worse state than it is now. To talk about disbandment is utter rubbish and the senior hierarchy of the RAF should be ashamed of themselves if this is what they are considering, to save a few pounds which will melt into the defence budget with no trace. How about some of the air officers positions are disbanded? At least maybe a few bad decisions and a whole heap of money will be saved.

OnaBeach

airpolice, I can confirm the unpleasantness of some of those items on your list, having been tempted to try them against my better judgement....:eek:

Guinness - perhaps not the best moment to try it for the first time was after a dining-in night, hip flask of Glenfiddich and a couple of beers at a UAS back in the 1970s...it lasted as long as the time it takes to run from the ULAS THQ bar to trap 2. I haven't been tempted to try Pope's Pi$$ since, although it seems to be OK in thick, rich beef casseroles.

Skodas. The company had 2 pool cars - a Volvo and a Skoda. Worse still, both were diesels. The Volvo died, so I had to use the Skoda. On non-Autobahns I was forever having to shift between 4th and 5th - and even 6th, given a straight-ish stretch. Fortunately no-one recognised me.

Yoghourt isn't actually too awful - no real Akrotiri kebab was complete without it.

But as for the rest of the list, that must be for others to report as I have no intention of experimenting further.....:ooh:


Regarding the BBMF petition, some may think that it is a waste of time. But at least it is a way of letting No.10 know how much people value the contribution which the Flight makes to commemorating our wartime history - as indeed does the Royal Navy Historic Flight, of course.

Do some of you really think that any money saved on either the Reds or the BBMF would actually make any difference to our Frontline equipment ?
Have we seen any improvements in our forces with the alleged savings of the retirement of the Royal Yacht , Queen's Flight ,the Royal Tournament ,various Army bands , early retirement of the Jaguar + other countless cost-saving cuts ? That money will simply disappear into our corrupt pathetic Governments black hole of Financial "good causes" , I'll let you all decide on those .

Good Luck for May 6th. :ugh::ugh::mad::mad:

I can takes so much Olive and then I can't takes no more! My Grandchildren and most probably my Great Grandchildren will be paying off the debts run up by Sir Fred and all his chums. The Defence Budget is a prime target for the squeeze that will have all the pips squeaking. It is not a question of how much more spending will be available for the front line but more a question of how much less there will be if the BBMF, the AEF's, the UAS's etc etc have to go on being funded out of the same budget. The irony in all this is that there is a fair chance that the only aircraft in full compliance with the UK Military Airworthiness Regulations are those operated by the BBMF, given that it directs its own procurement, maintenance and servicing procedures. Lack of funds to do that for the front line fleets has already cost far too many lives. When the new MAA starts its business of trying to rectify that, the first thing it will need is money and probably far more than was ever "saved" by deliberately flouting the Airworthiness Regulations for more than twenty years. Again that has to come out of that very same Defence Budget. We are at war, whether members posting here support that or not is immaterial, we are still at war. There is a desperate need for more AT and especially SH, again that has to come out of the same budget. I really think that we have to face up to reality and quickly. If something is done in good time it is possible that the Flight can carry on, albeit under different funding arrangements. Do nothing and the likelihood is that it will be disbanded and the aircraft sold off. I do not believe that the annual cost is a mere £3M. I do not believe that the MOD has not plans to save whatever the real financial cost is. My point is that the real cost of diverting money to worthy but unessential ends will be in lives lost in avoidable accidents if this burden is not lifted from the Defence Budget. Oh, seeing as I'm going to get jumped on anyway, may as well get hung for the sheep etc. Beags, your comment that those who do not support this petition are unworthy of wearing the light blue was outrageous. You may have been aiming it at those younger ones who are still serving, that simply makes it more outrageous in my view. Well I don't support it and resent the slur on my service in the Royal Air Force. Disagree with me by all means, as indeed you do, but keep that sort of "banter" to yourself!

Bolleaux, I did not suggest that those who didn't support the petition were unworthy; what I actually wrote was:

Which I stand by.

Lest we forget

Oh dear, EGDG thinks we're living in the past, then presents a view that proves that he has no understanding whatsoever of that past which, incidentally, prevented him from living and speaking German. He clearly has a chip on his shoulder, possibly sourced from the teak higher up. He seems to be very much your average model youth, although apparently not a fully equipped and working model.

Destroying the highly visible links with what it is we all stand for, or used to stand for before Prime Ministers rejected principles of honesty and trust in committing to an illegal war, is a seriously negative step when shiny-arsed pen-pushers in your MOD get massive bonuses for mis-managing a job which could be done by a couple of good NCOs with a bit of nous.

The Memorial Flight doesn't need to be cut due to lack of funds; the funds are there already, but are being mis-spent in layers of incompetence. The funding to maintain the links are there, if the whole budget wasn't being used so much as a lottery.

Beagle:
This thread is about supporting a petition to the Government calling upon it to keep supporting the BBMF (via the Defence Budget). What other interpretation of your above comment is there other than that those who do not support the petition cannot see the worth of the BBMF and thus do not deserve etc etc? Has anyone, including me, said that they do not see the worth of the BBMF? My posts are, rightly or wrongly, an attempt to preserve rather than disband the BBMF which is more likely to happen by doing nothing other than to simply sign this petition. Make provision for it now rather than face a fait accompli then! Oh, and bolleaux to you as well!

Strange how there is complete uproar over the BBMF (allegedly costing £3M per annum) and yet this statistic goes unnoticed.

As has been said, it is not a lack of money, it is a lack of competence on behalf of those in charge of spending it. Add that to the fact that those spending it are "Politically correct" and "vote chasing" and the future doesn't look good for anything that is, or ever was in the slightest way, ever connected with "Great Britain"!

I for one would rather spend £3M on the BBMF and a mere £7.797 billion on foreign aid. It is much cheaper to maintain a capability, than to try to reclaim it once it's been lost!

BBMF Et Al.
 

BEagle
As we say Downunda "Good on ya mate". You have hit the nail on the head.
You can add John Howard and Kevin Rudd to your list.
The whole Afganistan senario is a Vietnam replay and look what happened to the Brits at Kabul during the century before last and Boris the Bear in the 1980's.
Don't these polies read history? They can't win.

BEagle
Dmussen

I do so agree with Beagles post and yours you old ex-convict you. We are in a no win situation and as you say, why do politicians not look at history. Hitler made the same mistake by not reading up on Napoleons foray to the east.

BBMF - when it is gone it will be gone for good...................:*