But a capitalist society works by recycling the unemployed Wg Cmdr in a new role, either as an entrepreneur or new employee.

As a year 1 economics student would tell you, the size of the cake is not fixed!

Defence Budget
 

Pedant I may be, but I prefer "Defence" with a "c"!

That's as maybe, unless the wg cdr upsticks to Spain or Oz or whereever or decides his pension is big enough. Sometimes it is a double hit as Mrs Wg Cdr retires when he does too.

PS,

and I wouldn't trust any first year student to even buy a postage stamp on time.

If UK PLC was at war and the nation's survival depended on it then yes. Since it's not, the answer is no I would not accept a 5% pay cut.

On a personal level with kids and a mortgage it would hit me quite hard. But the main reason is that whilst 22/7M's intentions are admirable, the basic plan is crap.

I doubt it would save that much money in the grand scheme of things and it would just enhance the push factor when the economy eventually, but inevitably picks up. Furthermore, moral would go even further south than it is now.

Notwithstanding the problems with the UK's Social Security policy, the crux of the problem (as has been eluded to already) is the mismatch between the government's desire for us to be a world military power and the amount they're willing to spend.

Leave Afghanistan to the Americans.

Some of those staples sharp are they?

What are these death defying acts you deliver on det then?

Stump up or shut up!

PN said some good stuff ending with:

National service? Probably not.

Pay cut? Emphatically no! What value judgement does that imply when people are in harm's way, fighting and dying?

Cancel Trident.

CG

"Defense" budget?
"Help fill the delta"?????

I would sack any senior officer who fails to use the English language proper-like :E

If Frank Field and Greg Pope manage to get Broon's decision to scrap the 10p bottom rate of income tax revisited next week, even more cuts are going to have to be made.

PS: Brewers, saving for retirement is going to become compulsary in 3 years or so. And if public service final salary schemes are still around in 5, I'll be gobsmacked.

Cut massive swathes of admin & bureacracy out of the MoD in all areas
Contractorise even more functions but streamline the bidding process
Reduce the number of Senior Officers in all 3 Services massively - the "pyramid" needs to be flatter & the reporting/ admin structure really needs to be examined to see where it is adding value & where it is adding "nausea"
Combine Commands/ Functions (eg CAS & CinCStrike, 1SL & CinCFleet etc)
Bring the Army back from Germany so that they can spend their money in the UK
Must be some more Airbases that can close (unless they are needed to house the Army returning from Germany)
Close BRNC Dartmouth & conduct initial Naval Officer training either at HMS Raleigh or in a joint service estlishment with professional training at HMS Collingwood (eventually Collingwood would have to close, too, & move its functions to Raleigh)
Close Portsmouth Naval Base & shift all RN ships to Devonport (pity they have just announced the opposite move for FF/DDs)


& that's just off the top off my head & there's plenty that will disagree with me, I'm sure. Trouble is that there would be even more in-fighting between the Services & within each Service than hitherto and, most importantly, the changes would all COST money & require investment to bring to fruition. Even if they were considered to be good ideas the Politicians would just think in the short term.

Chop CEA.
Reduce specialist pay by 50%

As we were saying at lunch (a little liquid)...

Let's just bin the whole bally lot. Scrub the single services completely and have a single defence force. Centralise all the support functions, think of all that money saved. And no more single service chiefs bickering. All one uniform, so we can keep the costs of kit down, joint training regimes wherever possible then specialise on sea, land or air. Build super-bases across the country (it's happening anyway with Devonport becoming a ghost town (if FOST moves it'll be goodnight Guz)). Give SAR to the Coastguard, too.

Like I say, it was a bit liquid and we did work this up on the back of a fag packet. A bit like the last budget, really :}

Andyy, Andyy, Andyy, Beatriz, Beatriz, Beatriz,

I really do not mean to be rude but, I have had two pints of Bulmers. You really should think a bit more carefully before posting such uninformed and naive drivel. I think you should both stick to Rum Ration.

Sorry, don't mean to be rude but do you expect those posts to be taken seriously?

Ah Widger, you have spotted the irony in my posting. And no, I don't expect anyone to take it seriously. That was why it was written in the style that it was.

Have another apple juice and lighten up.

Glug Glug, light is on, what's the weather like in Lee tonight?:ok::ok::ok:

Without Trident you get 15 billion quid to spend between the forces.

5bn each (apologies to Royal Marines).

You have to stretch it out over 20 years - but what would you buy? And if he RAF doesn't say helicopters and transport aircraft or mentions fighters then ban them from the thread..

A shed load of Mastiff/Panther/Husky/.50cal/Boots/Aircon/viable comms kit would be my vote but I know nothing and have no vote.


WWW

It's been done; The project managers who get vilified in the press and elsewhere for equipment delays do their own recruiting, promoting of staff, special leave and training authorisation and welfare follow-up thereby saving the taxpayer the cost of, mostly, junior grade staff. The pay admin element is contracted out to PPPA. Streamlining of commercial functions is only possible when Treasury and EU say so.

Kinloss? Plenty of real estate at Waddington to accomodate just 9 MRA4s.

Leuchars/Lossie? Shut one or the other, scrap the GR4 (F3s are gone soon anyway) and embrace the future that is Typhoon. Walk away from JCA/JSF (which is it?) and have a maritime version of Typhoon instead. Close both stations and have carriers instead. One can moor in the Moray Firth while the other goes on a world cruise, then they swap over.:E

If technical training is to be centralised do it at an existing site rather than move it to somewhere the current instructor cadre don't want to go, that is miles from the motorway and isn't in a central location.

That's my two penn'orth. SWs to you all.

R

RAF should buy gripen,

no reason really, i just think she looks sweet.:ok:

Now is the time to announce future asset sales - don't sell them now but give a notional date when we think the recession will be over when we intend to flog them.

The biggest asset sale currently planned is Ofcom's statement in Jan 08 that they intend to flog off a big chunk of Govt-controlled radio spectrum, 75% of which is allocated to MoD. Back then they said this could raise between £3bn and £20bn. All you need to do is cite the precedent of the sale of Chelsea Barracks (when all £950m of the proceeds went back to MoD) and Bob's your uncle.

Next on the list is Wellington and Hyde Park Barracks. Lovely central London locations and as far as I can see of no value in the defence of the realm.

Then as someone else mentioned moving bases to the North would save money - there's an entire episode of Yes Minister devoted to this proposal. Of course if there is evidence that these moves would significantly worsen retention rates in key trades then perhaps not.

Sadly my understanding re the bases in Germany is that we requisitioned all of the sites in 1945 and therefore if and when we hand them back we won't get a penny.

In PMQs today the PM was asked by a Scottish MP if the 3rd Aircraft carrier would be built, he confirmed that it would be.:rolleyes:

Will the UK be able to afford to put any aircraft on these carriers?:confused: