RAF Terms and conditions etc...
 

Hi all,

I'm due to start IOT in a few months and I've a couple of q's regarding pay etc.

I've been made aware that as a non-grad I'm deemed to be worth less to the eyes of the RAF and also with regards to accelerated career progression up to Flt Lt. I'm 25 years of age and have been working in the city for much of this therefore I was surprised to find that a 21 year old grad is deemed to have more life experience etc, thus the larger salary etc...

Would anyone happen to know if this is simly a case of 'life's tough - get over it' or would there not be more of a look case by case to determine salary etc...

Finally, I've been offered a PC, and I was curious to find out what the course of action would be should I not wish to meet the 18/40 point and wish to leave earlier - am I right in thinking that this is known as PVR?

Thanks in advance (Just to point out, I'm not trying to be negative at all, I'm just wanting to get everything clear prior to me turning up!!)

Regards
BC

It's a case of "if you can't take a joke, etc."

Yes.

Give le petit fromage his due, he has been trying for 3 years and is intending to become a Rock. I am sure he will enjoy a very testing and exhilarating time once he graduates. As a Rock he will reach the frontline sooner than aircrew and have plenty of chance to show his mettle.

Unfortunately he will probably not get flt lt until he is turned 30.

You need to start by knowing your place, and your place will be at the bottom of the pile. You will be paid according to your rank, and your rank progression will be determined by your qualifications on joining. Your 'experience' in the city is of no relevance to the RAF, as you will soon discover.

You need to be cautious with this "I worked in the city, I deserve more" attitude. You will not last 5 minutes at IOT if you take that with you.

Best of luck.

In his defence, I would agree that he will have gained more in the city than as a student.

Tourist, we had someone very similar in our initial sift and to a young 17 year old he seemed the height of sophistication and maturity.

He didn't get to first base. Give Le Petit Fromage his due, he is at first base and it took him three years to do it. Shows some grit and determination. I guess where he is going he will get plenty more grit and need every bit of determination. :)

I would certainly agree that the learning curve is dramatically steeper for the older entrants, just never understood the fetish for graduates:confused:

Pontius,

Many thanks for your comments - as you say, it's taken some grit and determination though I've finally got the foot through the door!

TheInquisitor,

I'm not trying to say that I deserve more, I'm merely trying to find out if it's as simple as grad - pay and promotion prospects good and fast, nongrad - pay and promotion prospects not so good (initially!)and considerably slower. From what I can see it appears to be the case.

I've read some more about this and from what I can gather it's to ensure that the lad who joins at 18 compared to the other guy who goes to uni reach flt lt at approx the same amount of time.

As you no doubt know yourself, not all non grads will be 18 therefore I've asked the question.

And with regards to the PVR comment, I'm not at all looking at getting out before getting in, I just intend on being as gen'd up as possible on the small print - there seems to be a fair amount of threads regarding this, pensions, pay etc so it seemed like a valid question to ask.

Yes, you have that correct - payscales are fixed to rank, and rank progression is time-based to Flt Lt - non-negotiable (unless you f**k-up, and can then be 'negotiated' back a year or so!)

Apologies for misreading your intentions, and the best of luck for IOT.

I'm 29 and applying for a commission, one of the reasons being I have learnt in the "real world" that money isn't everything, I'm happy to take a huge pay drop to join the Service and be on the slow track to promotion to join a community where regular job changes and deployments make you a competent individual in all aspects of life.

One question though, why would you have a steeper learning curve as someone who is older than a university leaver? The RAuxAF must have solved the problem whatever it is?

Just because the human animal's learning rate is dropping from the moment they are born. If we could take 3 yr olds they would find it easier.
On your course you will find that the 19yr old gits will do very little work, come in hung-over etc and unprepared and still get through whereas you with your life experiance have probably developed a decent work-ethic by now and will need every bit of it. It doesn't mean you won't win the prize, but boy will you have worked for it!

It's the truth behind the saying about old dogs and new tricks.

Stamina also comes with age. The young sprogs can generally wing the fitness thing. The mid-20s have often lost the physical fitness edge. The 30 plus guys can often continue for longer.

Then there is the acceptance thing.

Simply the 18 yr old by the time he has been commissioned 8 years will know his stuff and he will be able to earn the respect of the men. A 26 yr old that has been in a year will be treated the same but won't have that 8 years experience to draw on.

As someone who Mr Cheese will be lisening to while he runs around with the pine poles I am looking forward to seeing how his time in the city will be of benefit.

Interesting comments, the AFCO told me that the average age for an officer application is around 29, which you can assume means the average age of those accepted is around 29?

Speeddial - statistics remember.

A significant number of officers are commission from the ranks. A warrant officer would be commissioned as a flt lt and will in all probability be in his early 40s.

Firstly, helo425, I can't see one example of Big Cheese1 stating his time in the city will be of benefit. He was simply asking a question regarding age vs pay.

Secondly, I find it awfully presumptuous that you should think "Mr Cheese" will be lisening [sic] to you. If you are, as I suspect, another IOTC Hitler then I'm sure, like me, he will give you a stiff ignoring!

PN, sorry I meant apply from the civilian world rather than from the ranks, hence the maximum age is late 30s for most branches.

Time Flies

Have a look at helo 425's previous posts - quite informative.

All,

There appears to be some confusion perhaps in regards to my tact with reference to my work experience so far. When I say that I've been working in the city, this is in no way trying to suggest that I'm more clued up than the next guy, it's simply to put my own situation into some context (albeit minutely) I'm not trying to emphasise an time spent in the square mile, it makes no difference.

I was simply trying to determine whether it was the case that the RAF considers substantial work experience (possibly age?) when determining the rank (and therefore pay) upon graduation.

It appears that the answer is very black and white - holder of a degree and you'll grad as a Fg Off regardless, without and you'll be an Act Plt Off. Not the biggest drama at the end of the day and certainly not my main concern - that of successfully passing the course!