30 More UK Helicopters to Afghanistan???
 

Did anyone else her the Sky News report tht the UK was sending 30 more helicopters to Afghanistan? Have I missed something? It wasn't on the sky headlines when I got in 3 hours later, but that doesn't surprise me.

Anyone have any further information? Personally unless we are conducting smoke and mirrors with the Freaks, then please someone enlighten me with where these 30 helicopters are coming from?

More Merlins from Westlands? Grey Merlins being re-roled? Or have we finally gone down the mecenary option with Blackwater/Dyno Corps?

:confused:

Now if I misheard Sky News, I do apologise - I was into my second beer, so could have been completely way off track!

Des Browne emerged from a NATO Ministers meeting and spoke of them seeking +30 helos...he did not say UK helos.

30 helicopter would typically mean 45 crew ie 90 pilots. So not from the UK as the Training pipeline a) does not have the students and b) could not cope if it did.

I have heard rumours of stored CH47 Chinook sitting outside on Italian airfields in storage. Although aged airframes of basic standard, they could be resurected for Afghan use. Though who would operate them and where the DAS would come from is anybodys guess. It would be far from quick to achieve this.

Perhaps the new fleet is the stick attached to the 'Join NATO' carrot, in which serviceable helicopters and trained crews could join up at short notice. I had read online that at least one former Warsaw Pact country would play if someone was to provide the C17s to get cabs into theatre, though I cannot recall which country it was. Poland rings bells, but I am not sure.

TM,
Those Italian CH47s are (I believe) spares recovered airframes used to support the active Italian CH47C fleet. I think they'd need a lot of work just to get airworthy, let alone suitable for Afg Ops. Compared to our Chinooks they have different engines (no FADEC), radios, DAS, avionics etc etc...

I believe what Swiss Des was alluding to was other NATO countries who have credible SH lift capability for Afg (ie, anyone who has CH47s, CH53s, Mi-17s or UH60s) and have not yet committed enough (or, indeed, any) cabs to theatre need to front up.

No way can UK PLC find another 30 cabs and 45 crews - even if the money was available now it would take years to generate the capability due to the training pipeline and delivery slots for aircraft. Mind you, we could re-role a load of Harrier pilots and buy second hand airframes for them to fly...

Ironically, if that Wa***r Hoon hadn't removed £1.5Bn out of SABR 5 years ago we'd be just about to get a load of new Chinooks and Merlins. You reap what you sow......

I bet a large number of this will be the deployment of rotary assets that are not fit for purpose, but ease the publics anxieties and make it look like the government give a toss.

They then sit on the apron leaking oil and contributing nothing. They take up valuable hangerage and parking slots, their crews and engineers require accommodation and feeding. Of course, they then contribute headquarters staff etc etc etc. In due time, a role is created to justify their deployment.

Before you know it, the assets that are fit for purpose are less efficient as their support chain is clogged up and their share of limited infrastructure reduced making life difficult.

The Chinook and the Apache are the mainstays of the Afg op. There is a niche role for either the Sea King or Merlin, but to deploy both is a purely political move. One or the other would be welcome.

Standing by for incoming!

5 Army Lynx sat outside Base hangar at Brize...wonder where they is off too....

They weren't Army Lynx.

Fosters

847 NAS Perhaps!

A new direction and thought maybe????
 

I think that the aspiration was to spread the load. Get help from others but another option would be to use the other ‘allies’ airframes. This will be an easy option with only a little conversion bill?
Another option is to look at the wealth of ‘other types’ we have learnt – or some of us have- and get some of those. I am aware that there is a mod state but that is a bridge we have to overcome when it arises.
The point that really worries me is the manpower – 2 wars doesn’t sound a lot but it seems we are constantly on the bus. I am confused as to where we all are; are there so few of us about not to mention the ground and tech elements. Could we do the job more efficiently????
Maybe the answer is for there to be a combined air force (in the widest sense). JHC and 22 Gp could ‘pool’ the assets and use one det to do the entire load. Different bodies for different tasks but under one LOCAL command and maybe dual/tri rated to fly the type needed at the time? Is this not the aspiration of purple.
I don’t have the answer but am surprised every time we are fighting each other for one task, it usually comes down to 1st to the tasker gets it – a little bizarre in my humble opinion. Even ‘mort’ the sacred cow and have multinational dets, who knows.:confused:

I think this report refers to a number of things that are going on, but numbers are yet to be announced. There was an agreement earlier in the year, a helicopter trust fund, where a number of NATO nations would foot the bill to upgrade helicopters (fit them with defensive aids, NVGs, etc) from countries like Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Romania and Poland so that they would be able to deploy in Afghanistan with their own crews. The UK is also still due to send its six Merlins HC3As and certainly not 30 helicopters. Several other countries have offered extra helicopters, although some of these won't end up in Helmand.

30 Helicopters? How many at DHFS?

Now that's what I call a rumour.

Bloody hell, all the 'clockwork mice' are coming out of retirement, yup guys, here goes MASHistan. Bell47's save the world.

Not sure mass hysteria is either fair or correct; any light at the end of the tunnel is welcome. As for the 47s, you might be surprised what our 3 services are qualified to fly; borrowing is a good option.

UK Serials

Look at ZB697 and ZB698 .


Arrakis

How often do UK military serial numbers get re-used for different aircraft/new types entering service?

Well, that's the first two taken care of, only 28 to go... :hmm:

And who had the bright idea of re-using written-off target drone serials to confuse the enemy? ;)

Not exactly. There will be 5 of them.

Arrakis

He has a point and not the best subject here!

The Chinook and the Apache are the mainstays of the Afg op. There is a niche role for either the Sea King or Merlin, but to deploy both is a purely political move. One or the other would be welcome.

I think you'll find that CHF and all the crews don't think it's niche role. Nor do the 47 crews the SK take the strain off on the smaller tasks. We have been out there for nearly a year now y'know:ok:

Oh AIDU you are such a god damn chiseller. How on earth would the Pprune do without you?

Of course your contribution pales into insignificance when compared to everbody else on Pprune...........

KNOB!! Now confined to 'ignore list' so dont bother with your pathetic retoric.

Nato Turns To ExSoviet Bloc To Help Solve Its Shortage Of Helicopters (from The Herald )

[Acky] Courtesy of Ian Bruce, Defence Correspondent (The Herald)

Looks like Ian got some words from this very site!:}

I have it on good authority the 30 extra helicopters are undergoing final testing as we speak, a leaked photograph shows the latest disruptive paint scheme being put through it's paces..... :p

Labour are particularly keen on it having shown significant fuel cost savings and the ability to operate at ultra low level.... Standard fireworks have been contracted to provide the Roman Candle mk1 flare dispenser at a significant cost saving to the public purse strings over the current items in service. ;)

http://www.lolhome.com/img_big/funny...1354098246.jpg

Perhaps they'll also be after the Sycamore which used to be in a hangar at RobinDoncasterFinningleyHood International Chavport back in RAF days?

Is this leaked story not linked to the 'Wessex HC2 wanted' thread?:ok:

Sadly as a member of the UK's modern fighting force this is all very sad as well as embarrassing. Major cuts to MoD spending are to be made over the next ten years and we are now reliant on the newest members of NATO to ferry our troops about in what will probably be older and less well equipped aircraft than our own.

Yes it can dramatically reduce IED attacks but can those aircraft cope with Hostile Missile and Ground fire engagements? Will the crews of those aircraft have the same mindset as ours when it comes to going that extra mile? What will serviceability be like? How many will actually be fit for purpose? How long will it take to get them CTR for Afghanistan and who is going to get them to that stage. Have those countries any idea of how we operate. Do we have commonality with radio equipment? The list goes on and on.

I am utterly dismayed by the whole thing.

Lets negotiate a ceasefire with the taliban. Go into the drugs business getting good gear for our domestic markets ( NHS and local chavs).Undercut the columbians and obtain new revenue streams to fund the government, thus defeating the credit crunch and lowering taxes.Then buy wads of good quality kit.

Is that as mad as it sounds?

In addition to those planned to be converted under the NATO trust fund, some of the others include the RAF's new Merlin HC3As (deployment next year) and those eight Chinooks (not likely to be sent until 2010), France has just announced in the last few days that it will send some more helicopters as it beefs up its forces following the death of ten of its troops last month. Sweden was going to deploy Super Pumas that were supposed to go out to northern Afghanistan about now, but I don't know if anything else came of it. Canada has or is due to deploy six extra Chinooks that it recently bought second hand from the US. These won't be operational until early next year. It is also going to lease six Mi-8 helicopters for re-supply tasks.

I wonder if anyone in the ivory tower has been eyeing up that collection of helicopters near Weston-super-mare?;)

Weston Super Mare? Oh no, not the WG30s......!!

Rather have the "jingly cab" from Nutloose!

WG30, I will be glad of any aircraft as long as it doesn't come from the Wastelands!!!:bored:

"WG30, I will be glad of any aircraft as long as it doesn't come from the Wastelands!!!"

Which is exactly what the Indians now say....

Which is exactly what the Indians now say....
 

AgustaWestland Wins India VIP Helo Battle
And they have signed up for a Sea King update, not sure where you get your info from?:confused:

Perhaps Wasteland is looking Elsewhere?
 

Not sure Wasteland is looking at NATO's shortage. In the slipstream of the initial flight over ‘Vile last month of the 1st production model of the Marine One VH-71 taxi for the White House, (Merlin y’all), AgustaWestland is exhibiting an AW101 cabin mockup at the 61st NBAA Convention in Orlando today.

Their blurb states:
If built, that's a standard almost comfortable enough for fast jet pilot R&R.