Just popping by again with another off-the-wall and random tidbit. (Yes, I do drop in almost every day and have a quick gander at the new posts here!) In light of the German fighter pilot in a Spitfire 'at last' yesterday.


Interesting to see the plane, but also the recriminations still flying, down in the comments section.
https://japantoday.com/category/nati...Japan#comments

Can we send a P47 to shoot it down again? :suspect: :oh:

jolihokistix (#10922),

Thanks for the link. Have registered with "Japan Today" and put in a cmment on the "Zero" (Hasn't appeared yet !)

"The Art of Japanese Life" (BBC 4 on iPlayer), well worth a look).

Just occasionally they come up with interesting articles like this. Has your comment still not appeared?
Yes, I have heard good things about that programme but iPlayer won't play here and I do not understand how to get a different VPN...

jolihokistix,

Please check PMs

Danny.

Oh well, you can always reregister and try again, Danny.
(JT causes me constant little headaches.)
PS Thanks for the tip!

A very authoritative comment follows the article:-

Think Flying Pay was introduced in the early '50s: I got 3/6 pd for as long as I was appointable for flying duties - whether or not in a flying post. On a ground tour, it was up to you to seek out whatever flying you could find (on types on which you were qualified, of course) for yourself.

On that basis, I was luckiest than most, as at Thornaby 608 (Aux) had Vampires and a MeteorT7, and there was a Station Harvard and a TM. I'd flown plenty of Vampire III and V on 20 Sqn, but even so 608's Boss stuck me in a Vampire and told me to do rollers until he told me to stop. He then went up the Tower and got the binoculars on me, called a halt after five circuits and grudgingly let me fly with the Squadron from then on. But the Meteor's flying hours were strictly limited to Squadron IF training and rating, so it was barred to me (I didn't mind, never liked the things anyway - all push and no lift).

This loose arrangement led to so many accidents that Air Ministry stopped it, no flying on ground tours, but you did a fortnight's refresher every year. At North (?) Cerney I tried to beg a Harvard to go up to Thornaby for the (mid) weekend to see girlfriend, but as I didn't have an IR on them, no go. Ah, well....

Yes, Danny42C, I well remember the elderly (50+) ex-Aircrew ATCOs who were still getting Flying Pay as they were, technically, still employable on flying duties. And they never went near an aircraft!

No disrespect, I guess it was fair for the individuals, but it did cause a bit of irritation amongst the younger element who were really struggling on Ground Branch pay in the old days.

My father did his last tour in the Airbox in 1956/7. His department was primarily navigators and as far as I remember aircrew had to log a certain number of hours per annum to keep their flying pay. My father used to take an Anson from Northolt full of navigators to Jersey once a month and normally, despite their best efforts, he used to arrive there; and get back.

I, being a fully paid up member of the Air Training Corps, went on one and that was when I bought my first electric shaver; a Phillips two rotor job.

He would also borrow a Chipmunk and do some Instructional Continuation Training on me.

Some time in the early seventies when some form of income support came in one of our Air Traffic Pilot officers who was married with one child found out that he was entitled to Income Support.

It shook the hierarchy of the Air Force.

FED - I remember that - you are right - shock waves in all directions

Yes, I was perpetually skint as a fg off/flt lt with a spouse and 2 rugrats. Them were 'ard times.

You should have tried being an LAC. We had one at Brize who fed his family by riding around the line on his bicycle, scrounging left-overs from the inbound VC10 galleys.

Had a mate at Strubby in the '50s, perpetual Fg Off as he couldn't pass "B". When at last he was "deemed" to have passed, and got his Flt Lt; first thing Vin did was to tell his wife to go out and buy a pound of steak - in place of the egg 'n chips on which the family had had to live for so long !

Even as Flt Lt, we survived for years only by grace & favour of kindly Bank Managers (where have they all gone ?)

As far as I can remember the Officers Mess car park was fairly Spartan with a few old bangers in it.

The Sergeants Mess car park, however, had the latest that the BMC Vauxhall and Ford factories could produce.

Channel 4 Sunday 2 July
 

From another forum, just seen this - may be of interest to a few on here

Dunkirk : The New Evidence | Channel 4 2 July 8pm | Bradford Zone

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)

pzu (#10938),

Watched it last night, thought of starting a Thread on Miliary Aviation with the following, but have forgottten how to do it. So here it is, for what it's worth:

Dunkirk: The New Evidence (Channel 4, 2/7/17 20:00 BST).

"As usual, it was all done by Spitfires: the poor old Hurricanes didn't get a mention - although they appeared on one or two of the "clips". Interesting to see that the "Stukas" all used the wing-over into the dive (I saw only one push-over, presumably too low for a wing-over). Much more comfortable the wing-over way, as you have the target in full view all the time (and no negative 'G').

Although the film showed relentless bombing of the beaches, the fact that 300,000 plus got away shows that it "wasn't as bad as all that" (but bad enough, in all conscience). Interesting that the commonly held supposition (that Hitler had ordered his armour to halt, although they could easily have pressed on and taken the lot "into the bag)" seems to be true. His thinking must've been: "The Englander are beaten to the wall; they must sue for peace now; why should I have to feed and house this lot in the meantime ? Let the Englander have that headache !"

The returning troops seem all minus their rifles: were they lost or was there a collection point in Dover ?

It was touch-and-go, the Chamberlain/Halifax Government might well have run up the white flag. Luckily, Churchill showed up - and the rest is history.

Danny42C.



"

Wasn't this lack of small arms the reason for the invention of the cheap and easy to manufacture, but somewhat unreliable Sten gun?

I'm afraid that I wasn't very impressed with this programme. The business of Army/RN resentment at the "absence" of the RAF at Dunkirk was dealt with in the Battle of Britain film, so this was hardly breaking new ground despite all the "astonishing things" mentioned.

BTW, I seem to remember in the film Lawrence Olivier (as Dowding) saying that he had lost 400 aircraft in and over France, whereas this programme spoke of 900 I think. Were the other 500 not from Fighter Command?

As to the discussion of Officer v NCO pay, the old F6663 was a constant reminder of such discrepancies. With a crew of many Master Aircrew, as well as Flt Sgts and Sgts, mostly married, as a single Flg Off aircraft captain I was often drawing less pay than my co-pilot, navigator, flight-engineer, signaller, or loadmaster. As always with the Service, you were paid for the rank, not the job, with or without marriage allowance.