Love the words, but the pics need to be bigger Cliff :ok:

Cliff - I don't suppose you regarded yourselves as brave young men but that's what you were and you have our eternal gratitude for what you did.

Your story is a marvellous chance to look into the past through the eyes of a participant and you have the real story-teller's gift; keep it coming. :ok:

A Load Of Bull
 

Hi Exscribbler,
Many thanks for your encouraging contribution
BUT
Re your remark story-tellers gift , all us Yorkshire men are good at "shooting a line". But I would like to stress I am trying hard not to do that. I am doing this, because, what to me is only yesterday, seems for some unfathomable reason to interest quite a few other people.

As for "didn't regard you selves as brave young heroes" Don't think so. More like it can happen to someone else but not me. (Psychologists please explain). But would agree there were quite a lot of B.Y.Hs.

Also I must iterate, reiterate, even say again.My career has a slightly UNUSUAL ending with no D.F.C s or D.F.Ms.
Just in case you think this means I was "drummed out" no, I was discharged with V.G character reference. So please wait until the end (if I ever get there) for any accolades.
Just noticed I had not typed a caption to the pic of the bombed out houses (see above). Have edited it to read, t My home until 1941.

What did the erk say to the erk who did't have a number?
I've been in longer than you. I was in when D.R.Os were written on stone. ( D.R.Os ? Daily routine orders.)

For those of us who are awaiting the next instalment of Cliffnemo's story with bated breath, there is, if you haven't found it, yet another brilliant series on flying the Sunderland in Aviation History and Nostalgia.

Our Introduction To The Darr School Of Aeronautics
 

On our arrival at the Darr school. We were taken into our billets and shown round. Perfect,quite new, white painted , wooden single story building. Gas central heating Hot showers available night and day. Double bunks ( one above the other you horrible little man). Each of the many windows with a wire screen fed with water to stop the dust blown up by the aircraft props. It was summer, 103f with total blue sky and no wind, which stayed constant for a month or two.

After that we were taken in to the mess. We were very impressed stainless steel fittings every where. A fantastic choice of food, and such things as apple pie and ice cream , bacon and eggs, cereals and SUGAR. and BUTTER

One thing we couldn't fathom, was the proliferation of signs saying KEEP OF OFF THE GRASS. While the university air squadron types discussed at great length whether the use the word OFF, was grammatically correct, another cadet who had noticed there were no tarmac runways , said I wonder how they expect us to get those aeroplanes airborne

We had a shock on our first evening, we thought we would go down to the local pub. However we found out
we were only allowed out from 5 P.M to10 P.M on a Wednesday. and midday Saturday to 10 P.M Sunday all day 'til 10 P.,M. ,and there were NO PUBS. Nose to the grind stone the rest of the time.

The first thing we did on arrival at a new camp, was always to find an oppo (friend)_ or two. I chummed up with a lad called Bill ****,from Cardiff, and an Americn from Atkins. Iowa . called Hardy Albrecht (d). (second generation German), but a a loyal American, proud of his country.We remained firm friends all the time we were at Ponca City.

The next day, we were taken down to the control tower and introduced to every one and then allocated to an instructor. My instructor,was a Mr Dux who turned out to be a very experienced patient, cool pilot, but most of all he could teach. He explained he would be teaching us for three months , primary training, which would be one hundred flying hours, and most of it would be over the 101 ranch. I asked him why 101, and he replied that's the size in acres. I was later to find out it was 101,000 acres. He explained that all the roads ran North South , East , or West. That as the railway ran North and South though Ponca , initially, as well as map reading. we would be able to find our way. Also that each large water tank had the name of the town printed on it. Following the railway was frowned on by the R.A.F , and was called flying by Bradshaw. Bradshaw being the official British railway time table at that time.

The next day was 4/8/1943 (from my log book) we were instructed , on preflight checks including , see that there are no loose objects in the cockpit, peto head cover removed check for full and free movement of all controls, chocks under wheels, sufficient gas for the journey etc etc. Then came "swinging the prop, throttle open , mixture fully rich, switches off , suck in. followed by throttle closed switches on .Contact.
I assure you pre flight checks became more complex as time went on. Hope, in the end, you will realize it became a little more than "wings on take off".

next came taxying, it was explained to us that as we couldn't see in front for the engine, we had to zig zag.
to obtain a clear view. A thing you didn't need to do in a Lanc:. If you did you would be off the perry track and possibly, bogged down.

After this my log book shows . Taxying ,climbing. straight and level and descending.
I have endeavored to print a pic of Hardy and me, in front of the control tower wearing the American equivalent of the R.A.F Irvin flying jacket.
Usihg 600X800 format as recommended by our moderator, fingers crossed.
Next lesson on the link trainer, it's time I went to the N.A.F.F.I, if only I can find a penny
Brains baffles Bull excreta . Or was it the other way round? http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...each/HARDY.jpg[IMG]file:///C:/Users/CFL/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

Any of you ex B.F.T.S "bods" out there remember if the P.T17 was started by swinging the prop, or did it have the wind up inertia starter. Was it fitted with a radio?

Thank you!
 

Thank you very much, Cliff, for your reminscences - I do enjoy your writing style, and it all strikes a particular chord for me as my father learned to fly courtesy of the US Navy at Pensacola, and then went on to fly Sunderlands between 1943 and 1946.

Sadly, he is no longer with us, although I do have his log book at home and I often wonder what stories lie behind some of the entries. One in particular is, I think, particularly poignant: an entry for 1 May 1945 showing "ASR 95/H - unsuccessful" - I presume this indicates that the crew of 95/H were lost, just a week before VE Day.

One of his fellow pilots from 95 Sqn (in fact, also his best man) still lives not far from you, on the Wirral.

Thanks again - looking forward to some more!

Sunderlands
 

Hi. 240 GARDNER
Yes Pensacola was a much sort after posting. Any one graduating there received the R.A.F wings and the American wings. They were allowed to wear the American wings on the right chest. This did not apply to B.F.T.S s

The Sunderlands not only had an Elsan chemical closet, but a galley as well. Other aircraft had the Elsan also, and it was not unknown for some inconsiderate pilot ( more likely the flight engineer had taken over) Pilots don't do that sort of thing . The crew member would be given sufficient time to sit down, then put the aircraft in a dive , and then pull up sharply. I did hear a story of one chap empty theirs over Germany (subject normal)

Regards my style of writing. Must be because when I started this I said to myself "to hell with , parsing. punctuation, split infinitives, past tense, present tense. Just get it down before it's to late"

ASR9S5H .Seems as if this was an air sea rescue and they failed to pick up airmen in the drink. It reminds me of an article in the 6 B,F.T.S magazine, which I still receive. An ex B.F.T.S pilot flew out in a Walrus, a twin engined flying boat (I can't spell amphibian) to rescue a downed crew far out in the North sea. It was very rough, but he decided to touch down. He then picked up the crew, but then with the extra weight and the high waves, couldn't get airborne. He decided to "taxy" back to blighty. He was half way home when an air sea rescue launch, met him and towed him back (it's true) . Pilots don't lie.

Cliffnemo, Sir I am enjoying your stories immensely.Im the chap writing about the Sunderland and I hate to correct you,but....we had a "Shanks' china flushing toilet,with a sea water header tank.One of the fittings that impressed our American friends no end!!! Keep up the good work.

Sorry Old Hairy. But a sunderland flight engineer who didn't know his shanks from his elsan called it that . Maybe you had a posh sunderland. But it was an Elsan that was fitted in Lancs. I know I spent most of my time there.

This is a real page turner.

Keep 'em coming.

Cliff

This is a fantastic story, I know from my father that there is a distinct reticence by many who served during the 2nd World War to tell their stories on the basis that "they didn't do much" but you did, you made it possible for us all to live in a free society, so you have my heartfelt thanks.

Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here
 

As there may be people reading this link, who would like to know more a bout 6 B.F.T.S Ponca city There is a book available explaining things better than I can and some smashing pictures , called The R.A.F in Oklahoma I emailed one of our friends in Ponca city for permission to

publish details. Her reply below is self explanatory.
Some of you might want to Google - The R.A.F in Ponca City -, and for a laugh enlarge the picture of the Link trainer, that I mentioned earlier.



--------------------------------------------------------

Hi Cliff,
Yes, of course I would like you to mention the book. If possible, can you mention my website since it tells all about the book? It is reached at www.pkdenson.com. I have registered just now on pprune but could not find your blog since they have not sent me a code number yet. I will check when I get it.


I have heard many wonderful things from the people who were involved in Oklahoma's training of RAF pilots in WWII, and almost on a daily basis. For example, I got an e-mail today from the daughter of a gentleman in the first course at Ponca City. Over half that course died but this man is still alive! How exciting to hear from them. My book sales have done reasonably well over the past year and a half but I still have about 300 to sell and am very adept at getting them in the mail to people in the UK so your help would be wonderful.

I look forward to hearing from you again.

Experiment. Front Page Of My Log Book
 

Front Page Of My Log Book
 

SEE ABOVE
Just practising printing from my log book . Also , finding out if print size can be increased when viewing in this link

Showing the flying exercises to come.

Along with Wiley above, I've just finished reading Harry M's scribblings on his wartime training in Canada.

Thank you very much Harry! :D

And to Cliff and Old Hairy as well - there's nothing like history told by those who were there. These have (collectively) been some fantastic threads - keep it up!

best thread on Pprune - probably ever.

Harry, can we all see your story here? If it's a bit long, give it to us in chapters.

Sunderlands
 

Welcome aboard Hairy.
CLIFFNEMO.

Thanks Cliff.
Get cracking lad,can't wait to read the rest of your exploits.
All the Best
Old Hairy

My father was trained at Pensacola in 1943. He was an ex brat instument technician who wasn't accepted for pilot training when WWII broke out as he was married with children. This was relaxed in 1942 so he was older than the rest being thirty years old. The only comment from my mother was that before he went to the States he was two left feet on the dance floor but when he came back he could see off Fred Astaire.

Trenchard's Brats.
 

For the uninitiated . Trenchard's brats were the elite. Trenchard toured the country's technical colleges, pre war to give the R.A.F the best technicians possible. The competent ones were then given an apprenticeship second to none. In those days an aircraft apprentice fitter was fully trained at Halton. After training he could carry out any repairs to airframes, engines even recover wings and fuselage and dope the calico? to tighten it. They became the sergeants and chiefys when the war started. At that point the trades were separated, into engines , airframes ,,etc, so that they could be trained quickly.

Just plucking up courage to start my next contribution
Thought - Didn't mention the " Welcome to Darr school" given by the C.O. We had heard it all before but it went like this. I'm a strict disciplinarian, but you play ball with me, and I will play ball with you. It was referred to by the ranks as "you play ball with me , and I'll ram the bat up your b*tt*m, or words to that effect.

Just sharpening my pencil, to be ready for desription o my first trip in a Stearman.

Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW11
 

Hello MTOW & others, I really think my writings are too verbose to be posted here, however would be delighted to e-mail them to you (and/or any other interested party); could you advise me of your address via the private message facility?

harrym

Harrym.

Certainly, tomorrow .

Then will discuss, with you, the various options.

There is a wonderful story at http://www.oldframlinghamian.com/ima...ODFCG26-32.pdf of how one Czech earned his RAF Brevet.

Pick was posted as squadron commander of 311 Czech squadron (Wellingtons) at East Wretham. 311 Squadron were not-fully operational, but as part of the ‘running-up’ process crews were sent on missions over Germany. Pickard became known as a hard task-master amongst the crews, often accompanying pilots on raids on Germany. A pilot accidentally ejecting his window shortly after take-off with Pickard as co-pilot, attempted to turn back for base, only to have ‘Pick’ point him in the direction of Berlin. Several hours later a hypothermic, but infinitely wiser Czech pilot found his way back to England. Language problems with the Czechs did not help matters either. Pickard decided to concentrate on those pilots with the most hours. An interpreter told him of one Czech named Joe with 2000 hours experience; Pickard turned his attention to him. After several trips the man was still strangely inept for a man with 2000 flying hours under his belt. Pickard probably felt a little silly when he finally learned that the individual was actually a navigator, with no piloting experience at all. Pick was not deterred, and trained him as a pilot anyway. Ironically, Joe married Pickard’s sister Hilary.

Trenchards Brats
 

Point of order your honour. Not "were" but are, even if we are a bit older now days.:)

An old friend of mine, himself a brat who had made the transition to GD/P, often reminded me that "You can always tell a brat, but you can't tell him much".

There's an interesting account of how "The First Fiji Contingent to the RAF" got into WWII in the latest edition of "Intercom", the magazine of the Aircrew Association. It took them 18 months to get into the War, including boat and train travel from Fiji, through NZ, to Australia, to South Africa to EFTS at Salisbury (Harare), with wings at the end of it. After arriving in Liverpool, they became trained aircrew and were posted on to the war effort.

One of the group, DPF McCaig, wrote "From Fiji to the Balkan Skies".

Trenchard's Brat.
 

F.A.O SHACK
---------------------------------
Point of order your honour. Not "were" but are, even if we are a bit older now days.:)
---------------------------------------------------------------

mea culpa or summat, and I apologise for killing off a fine bunch of engineers.
Did you know that an ex Halton Brat, with only tin snips , schobert rivet guns , and was it alclad ? plus original Hallifax bomber blue prints, built a complete nose section from scratch. The work comprised, pilot, flight engineer navigator bomb aimers position . All radios, instruments hydraulics. electrics. and tail plane. Yes Hairy M , even an elsan chemical closet. It is now complete in the Yorkshire air museum, Elvington.
It had been used as a chicken coop in Scotland, and arrived at Elivington with no wings tailplane or engines
That brat still is, rather than was. I was speaking to him yesterday.He eventually qualilfied as a pilot (Rhodesian trained) Think there maybe a few videos left,of the complete build. could find out. It is called Halifax project.

However if you read a previous blog of mine you will see I said "to hell with past tense .present tense " etc get it down while there is still time.
Sorry, folks if I got carried away, but they certainly were/are/is a fine bunch of blokes and deserve complements, for we would never have got any where without them.
Cliff.

Absolute nonsense. You can't tell us anything! ;)

Great yarn Cliff. Without chaps like you tell how it was, we'd lose a valuable piece of our history.

This gorgeous beauty, Cliff?

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/m...g?t=1214858558

Sirs,

Many thanks for your service. And for telling your stories.

As has been related here, many from that generation are exceedingly reluctant to tell their tales. And far too many of those stories have disappeared forever with the passing of the storytellers.

Having interviewed numerous WWII veterans, British, Canadian, Australian, and American, most had never really talked about their experiences and their families were amazed what quiet, unassuming Dad or even white-haired Granddad had done in his younger days, both on and off duty.

As to 'no DFCs' or 'DFMs,' one gent I spoke with was an RCAF pilot who volunteered in 1941, but didn't finish OTU in Mosquitos until May 1, 1945 due to delays in training, waiting for transport, etc, etc.

So, please, sir, may we have some more?!

Brats
 

Sorry Cliff I was not trying to hi-jack your magnificent Thread.

Most of my entry from Halton finished up flying but I do not think any of us who are still alive (we are now 76-78 year old farts) could match your stories.

More please!!:D

Halifax bomber . Elvington.
 

That's it. Friday the 13th. (it's name)

A pint of draft bass for any one who can say which one of those "props" is made of plastic.

There was nothing forward of the wings when the Halton brat started work.

No 1. It hasn't got a makers label on.

The first time I ever flew was in a Halifax. 1948, when my father was a pilot on 202 Met Sqn at Aldergrove.

harrym believes his reminisces are too long for this site. I don't agree, but that's for Harry to decide.

I can only recommend that everyone follow his advice by asking him to email them.

My First Day At Ponca
 

Today I should be making a top for the bird table. However I am going to visit Mr Dux on the flight line, before I "get put on a fizzer" for being absent.

I am sure the day was fine, very hot, as it did remain for the first few months, with visibility forever.

Mr Dux arrived and introduced himself to about 4 or 5 of us, and then we proceeded to our PT 17. We looked at this massive biplane "don't laugh you jumbojet drivers" very few of us, although our average age would be about twenty, had ever done sixty miles an hour on a motorbike. He then went through . preflight checks, demonstrated the movement of the ailerons, rudder. and elevator. The location of the throttle, mixture control, joystick. rudder pedals, and instruments. The instruments were pretty basic , a compass, altimeter, air speed indicator, plus a turn and bank indicator. The turn and bank indicator consisted of a vertical needle which swung either left or right , the amount depending on the rate of turn, underneath which, was a glass tube, similar to a spirit level, but it was curved \_/ with a ball in the bottom. If the ball remained at the bottom of the curve it indicated the aircraft was flying level. In a turn, it indicated if the aircraft was side slipping. So when blind flying, or "under the hood" the cadet set the throttle, and airspeed. Any increase in speed indicated the aircraft was descending, and a decrease, climbing. Hence the expression from the instructor, when things went wrong . needle -ball -airspeed, needle=-ball- airspeed NEEDLE-BALL-AIRSPEED. Gyro compasses and artificial horizons were used at that time, but we were told that it was absolutely imperative that we should be able to blind fly, using only these instruments, in case every other aid had failed.

After our introduction to the aircraft, we had our first flight. First of all we had to go to stores to collect a parachute. I was asked what number I wanted, feeling
capricious I asked for number thirteen. I was surprised it was virtually new and unused. After that I always asked for number 13 , whenever I had the choice.

From my log book -- Pilot Mr Dux, pupil cliffnemo, Taxying, straight and level, climbing, descending, 45 minutes. A nice gentle introduction, and beautiful views over the 101 ranch. I was also surprised to see many " "nodding donkeys" These were machines which pumped up oil, night and day. The area was very prosperous, at that time because of the oil fields, and was the home of the Continental Oil Co (CONOCO). This company was the major employer in the area.

The railway was pointed out with its large water tank with Ponca City written in large bold letters. The wide streets , running .N.S.E or W. , the Arkansas river , and some small towns such as Tonkawa. Guthrie. Enid. This was to be useful when we eventually solo'd.
After this , according to my log book I went to the Link trainer for familiarization, with a Mr Reid. The Link trainer (GOOGLE R.A.F. in Oklahoma for a pic ) was of wooden construction ,enclosed, in the rough shape of an aeroplane with the standard controls and instruments, and responded to the joystick by tilting in the required direction. I ended the day feeling quite confident and elated, and that Mr Dux and I would get on well together. We were told that in the future, we would spend half a day on the flight line and half a day in the classrooms, studying , meteorology aerodynamics, navigation, gunnery , bombing etc, until we started night flying.
--------------------------
Do you really love me , or is it your first field dressing?
(If you don't understand it, I will tell you when you're 21

F.a.o Exscribbler
 

Burton On Trent,The Barley Mow,

Don't suppose the brewery is offering part time evening work to pilots from Battlestead Hill , as it was when I was there,

Just to get this enthralling reminiscence back on page 1...they were still using Link Trainers at Linton-on-Ouse in 1972!

There's a good reason for that I reckon molemot

It's such a simple and cheap way of giving a great sense of aircraft handling/orientation


Sometimes simple is the best