As was I phil.............but then I came to the truckie fleet and found out it was something I was ENTITLED TO...........so who is wrong, Ascoteer's for claiming what is rightfully theirs or the FJ/SH world for believing their lords and masters when told you can't have it............:(

SFFP
 

I agree. Absolutely nothing wrong in claiming what is rightfully yours. It should be positively encouraged (it would be nice if there was still a man in the loop able to tell people what they are entitled to instead of: "computer says noooooo", but that's another issue!).
What irks people is taking the p1ss, for example bagging hotels when there is really no need, or even the more shady practices that have been known to occur!
Anyway I'll climb down from my soapbox for now because I don't want to give the impression that I don't like Ascoteers (I've even smiled at a few!). I just think that every now and then we all need to take a look at ourselves and admit that sometimes we aren't absolutely perfect.
Except me. Because I am!
BV:E

You know you have made it to Ascot's Peak when you spend five days in San Francisco's Fairmont Tower while the passengers (VIP's) rough it in the Holiday Inn! (Thanks to the US Navy)

;)
SFFP

I didn't say I agreed with the statement. Apart from my time on 230 in 1970s/80s I spent many years travelling both in UK and overseas and whenever I could swing it - Hotels/Pubs it was.







'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

SFFP,

GBH= puffed up windbag.

CG

Anyone got a copy of the Ode to a VC10 which charted the route of a 10 from Brize to Singapore? AFAIK it was not very complimentary to the 10 crews. From memory it appeared in Air Clues around late 70's.

So that'd make it pretty relevant in today's world then, wouldn't it....:hmm:??

Have to admit there is a common theme running through this thread which is probably why CharlieJuliet asked his question :(

Would that be the 9pm to 5am sector then ?
.
.
.
.
No, sorry, I meant 9pm til 7am ! Forgot that AKT don't do 24H ops.

As for the HOTAC whinge, get over it darlings. When looked at as a business model, it actually makes common (and financial) sense when considering some of the routes operated by 2Gp. Furthermore, as for "rule breaking" - don't think so. Therefore - if you know better, give provable examples or shut the **** up :}

God I love these ASCOT bashing threads !!!!

C130j Bloke
 

The HOTAC whinge was meant about those times when the pax are put one place and the crew another. Before you talk about crew duty and sleep and all that cr@p, you tell me why tanker crews are put up in Limassol hotels, when the single seat (non auot-pilot equipped) fast jet pilots, due to fly on the same trail, sleep in transit accommodation on base!! That's the kind of stuff that doesn't make friends!
I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with crews staying in hotels when it's all that's available and is required to ensure a good nights' rest (or night of p1ssing it up in the bar!).
As for the proof of rule breaking, I clearly stated earlier that I'm NOT going to mention it here because, by definition, it is not the sort of thing that I would really want to discuss on a public forum!
BV:ugh:

Not a direct dig at BV, because I don't know what secrets he knows, but it does annoy me when accusations are thrown around of dodgy behaviour. If people have witnessed or have evidence of wrong-doing, then presumably they reported it and subsequently gave evidence at any disciplinary action. If they did not, then they are as guilty of perpetuating any untoward behaviour as those that have allegedly done whatever it is, but they are spineless too. Don't whinge on a public forum, report it to the Feds and let them sort it out.

How can I put this so those of you who think you know everything about the AT/AAR fleet, but actually know very little about it can understand:

THE CREWS DO NOT BOOK THEIR OWN ACCOMMODATION

Any other questions?

:ugh:

Bob,
I have been on both sides of the fence and the answer to your question is quite simple. YOUR budget holder is responsible for paying for YOUR accommodation and if THEY choose not to fund Hotac for you, even though you are entitled to it you really can't blame the AT crews.

I could regale you with all sorts of tales with regards to my 10 years with SH where some chiseler who in his/her desperate attempts to get promoted simply tightened the purse strings but that would be bleating. The nice thing about the AT fleet is that there is some common sense out there, there is funding for what we are ENTITLED to and apart from the 2 sand pits life is pretty bearable when away.

The fact that the FJ/SH folk are treated so poorly is down to your OWN managers and you should not crticise the AT folk for having their sh1t in a sock so to speak.

There's some good reasons for that

1) I did a trail with Jag's through AKT. Boss wanted everyone on base to cut down the transport time to and from hotel to maximise crew rest (probably because they had long days of flying with no autopilot ;))

2) AKT Ops try to keep CREWS together so when take off times slip everyone's in one place, makes it easier for the co pilot who needs to pay for everyone's room on one government credit card, it's easier for Base Transport to pick them up in one run. Given that, is it easier to house 4 single seat guys on base or the larger crew the tanker usually has.The crew don't decide or get to choose to go downtown; it's Accom office through AKT Ops that decide that before you get in. We use to call AKT Ops at report time in Brize and see where we'd be staying (if they knew by then) Trust me, if there's room on base (and the cleaner's have been in) that's where you stay. I actually prefer on base for a short stop (Kebab down the strip, cheeky Brandy Sour) but that's neither here nor there.

Hope that helps !!

I think replies 141 + 142 have covered it pretty well - well done guys. As stated in my last, (not just directly at BV ) put up or shut up.

Give up, what does happen ?

Sffp, Ffp
 

Nicely explained, points taken.
Shutting up now!
I don't think you guys should stop getting nice hotels, but it'd be nice if we could all work to the same rules!
Still felt good to get it all off my chest though.
As for stories of rule breaking, we'll leave that for the bar, as they say!
BV;)

FFP - well put!

Many is the time that a cheeky jug of sour, then a kebab on the strip was what I was looking forward to during a quick AKR trail rotation.

But instead it was a bus ride to the Episskopiana, then sodding awful dinner in the hotel - or a 20 min walk down the hill... You can keep that - and the early morning trip back to Akronelli!

But the most embarassing Hotac incident I recall was when a bunch of smelly trash-haulers still in their 15 hours-across-the-pond flying suits (or however long it those things to stagger across from Lyneham) turned up at the hotel we were staying in at Washington. The hotel staff invited them to take their slabs of UK beer and poly bag full of snaffled in-flights elesewhere.....

I can see BV and buoy15's points more and more clearly now....

"But the most embarassing Hotac incident I recall was when a bunch of smelly trash-haulers still in their 15 hours-across-the-pond flying suits (or however long it those things to stagger across from Lyneham) turned up at the hotel we were staying in at Washington."

Despite my previous reservations the money spent on the CRM training package was an outstanding investment.......thank god the folk it was specifically designed to get rid off are now long gone and reduced to continually posting on Prune.

With 5 years service to do I really hope life outside the military has more to offer than 10k + posts on here :rolleyes:

You know you're a true Ascoteer when you can look at BEagle's last post and laugh in the knowledge that he's about as out of touch with reality as it gets.

Things have changed, old man. You'd not recognise modern ASCOT ops. Time you crawled away into your retirement home again and bore the visitors about the good old days of the shineys.

A few raw nerves?

I'm not sure what relevance you perceive between the poor behaviour in front of the public exhibited by that bunch of scruffs and crew resource management.

There always was a pecking order! :cool::cool:

A true ascoteer will have some ACC, CC, CTM etc in the freezer but possibly no ATM:}

The AT fleet will always have it's detractors, all fleets do. I attempted to point out that the AT fleet could be better in how it interfaces with it's customers and recieved a barrage of abuse for having the audacity to do so.
Some posters on here have agreed, some have supported the AT fleet. I just want to point out that 90% of the work done by the AT fleet is hard, thankless work, which goes without a hitch because of flexibility and people going the extra yard.
However to just claim that you are without fault shows a lack of flexibility, and leads me to suspect you are in the 10% bracket.
The SH force drops clangers, makes mistakes and lets people down from time to time. This may be our own fault, or due to circumstances beyond our control.
However, the needs of the troops we support are very dear to us. I was merely pointing out that the AT force does not always give that impression.
That may be a perception, and probably is, but it requires a little effort to change.
Whether you do make that effort does not affect me directly, but I would hate to see the AT fleet 'forced' to make changes that could have been made from within.

MGD

:ok: MGD good to see you sharing the love dude!! buoy 15 chill winston i used to be kipper fleet ( I assume from your nautical title you are the same ) and before 9/11 we used to stay hotac all over the shop the fact that now your role has changed and you don't do nice dets anymore ain't 2Gps fault. I remeber Rum Punch 3 weeks, 5 trips a pocket full of dosh all down the road from Miami. Happy days. All I will say is we all have a job to do just because ours is different, sometimes better than yours some times worse that's life, if you don't like it get a posting down here I love it. Remember keep the faith brothers!! peace out:)