Brazil Gives Up Modernization Plans for Aircraft Carrier Sao Paulo, Prepares for Decommissioning 15 Feb 2017
Brazil Gives Up Modernization Plans for Aircraft Carrier Sao Paulo, Prepares for Decommissioning

Interesting (but not surprising) decision on the Sao Paulo. Thanks for posting Spaz. Likely the end of South American carriers for the foreseeable future. I don't see any new build or surplus cat and trap carriers coming on the market, perhaps a STOBAR carrier but no one really would want those after the poor showing in the med this year would they? Any surplus or new build STOVL carrier would require the air wing to go with it , leaving second hand Harrier II's or the too expensive F-35B.

Conrad Waters in his "Navies of the 21st Century" (a good read) suggests that whilst "real" carriers will probably be restricted to the USA, China & India in the foreseeable future there is a whole range of vessels avalable that can operate various combinations of fixed wing, STOBAR, STOVL & helicopters ranging from the QE's through the Kuznetsov to the Japanese "helicopter carrying destroyers" and the various assualt ships such as Juan Carlos and even the Karel Doorman.

You get what you pay for but you could see quite a few operating small numbers of F-35's - at least for a short while - which maybe all you need. Horses for courses

NATO 'partners' buying a few F-35s could get them off the 2% of GDP hook ;)

Agree that we will see a variety of interesting aviation capable ships, and a few smaller carriers operating F-35B's. Beside the US and UK operating the B as STOVL, I would not be surprised with Japan getting a few B's for those nifty new "destroyers".


Will the ski jump on Canberra prove too tempting not to use?


Looks like Italy is making moves towards making their STOVL carrier B capable but politics seem to continue on the A/B mix, while Spain seems to be biding their time.


I was more commenting that the two South American countries that have operated carriers will likely be out of the fixed wing carrier borne business entirely. Doubt they could afford the F-35B, or a new or second hand carrier and air-wing of any type.

They have said on a couple of occasions that the infrastucture on the ship would need to be completely redone to operate F35s. Whether they could operate on a one off basis is open to debate, but I'd imagine some changes needed (Deck coating for a start)



Unless the Chinese want to get into the carrier export business

sandiego

You are right - the cost of any form of new conventional carrier is eye watering. Most of the older vessels now retiring were hand-me-downs from the western navies stock built in the 50's or 60's (or even older)

I think Waters point is that there are more options now - and you don't have to commit to (say) the F-35 right now - you buy a Mistral and it will last you 40 years - if, in the future you can afford the F-35 or there are some early models coming free then you can change your mind.

For someone like Brazil it probably makes more sense to spend their $$ on the SSBN programme right now

'Davef68' said:
Exactly the opposite is said because the Oz LHDs were designed by Spanish as per JCI to operate F-35Bs. Sure deck coating and minor mods needed in light of new info but nothing dramatic nor expensive - however it won't happen because no interest at moment - if ever - to put RAAF F-35Bs temporarily on Oz LHDs.

PM's floating fighter jet plan quietly sunk by Defence | afr.com

I'll bet once they arrive the RAN will move heaven and earth to "try them out" - you know, one off removable pad, nice weather, close to shore ....... "just in case"

The RAAF are getting As, the suggestion to look at the B was made by the politicians in the run up to their 2015 Defence Review

'Davef68' I'm glad this thread about RIPing the Skyhawks (a new one?) has been overtaken NOT BY ME (the notorious thread jacker) for 'yet another moan about Oz F-35Bs on Oz LHDs'. The AFR article cited tells an outright lie:
And yet the JCI was designed (many years ago granted) to operate the F-35B with info known at that time.

I get that a lot of ADFers do not want Oz F-35Bs on Oz LHDs. My view in a nutshell would be IF the RAAF have a role for some F-35Bs ashore (it has been mentioned in passing recently by an RAAF AVM) then a few RAAF F-35Bs could be embarked on our LHDs - IF REQUIRED for Fleet Defence and then disembarked when not required. Yep embarked for the odd training session, whilst the F-35B is a piece of cake to fly onboard in STOVL mode by all pilot accounts, it should be a doddle for any RAAFie CHAPpie.

But hey I don't want to derail this thread about SKYHAWKS. I happen to have participated in the Fleet Defence A4G era when four A4Gs were embarked on the ASW carrier HMAS Melbourne from 1969 - 1971 (I was late 1971 to early 1972). We were at the back of the bus. Later when ten more Skyhawks arrived to flesh out the numbers/roles onboard then - when the threat went away - the A4Gs of VF-805 took on other roles.

Modifications mentioned for embarking F-35Bs on LHDs are not expensive in the overall scheme of things. Ships are modified during refits quite a bit, as MELBOURNE demonstrated to enable operation of the A4Gs & S2Es early on - then modified again because first deck mods were not good enough <sigh>. Having F-35B H8ters exaggerate their claims 'why things cannot be done' is not new. Look at the long running thread here about the F-35. And yet IF the F-35B IS required on Oz LHDs it will be made so - and without much fuss.
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The 'politicians' at that time 2015 were significant - the now former PM and now former DefMin.