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-   -   NORAD general urges Russia to file a flight plan before sending out bombers (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/294533-norad-general-urges-russia-file-flight-plan-before-sending-out-bombers.html)

rotornut 2nd Oct 2007 14:12

NORAD general urges Russia to file a flight plan before sending out bombers
 
NORAD general urges Russia to file a flight plan before sending out bombers
Reuters
Published: Tuesday, October 02, 2007

The commander in charge of defending North American airspace urged Russia yesterday to be more transparent when it sends strategic bombers on long-range patrols toward the United States and Canada. General Gene Renuart, who is based at Peterson Air Force Base, Colo., said Moscow does not file flight plans for the patrols, forcing the North American Aerospace Defence Command to scramble planes each time the bombers approach. NORAD has maintained increased vigilance since the 9/11 attacks. "There is increased concern any time you have an unidentified aircraft approaching the airspace of either of the two nations," said Gen. Renuart. "If the Russians would file a flight plan just to state their intent and general routing that they would be on, that would ease one of our concerns." Moscow says security threats have forced it to revive the Soviet-era practice of sending aircraft on patrols beyond its borders.

ATPMBA 2nd Oct 2007 16:54

THAT SOUNDS LIKE JOKE!!!
File a flight plan for your bombers.
The source must be President Bush.

fireflybob 2nd Oct 2007 17:08

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!

I expect a further rash of Bush impersonations on YouTube following this announcment!

Will they need slot times?

rotornut 2nd Oct 2007 17:58


If the Russians would file a flight plan just to state their intent and general routing that they would be on, that would ease one of our concerns
OK, we're coming to bomb Cheyenne Mountain, here's our route... just wanted to let you know to "ease one of your concerns".

FFP 2nd Oct 2007 18:45

"Centre, we're running a little late on our TOT. Any chance direct ?";)

Maple 01 2nd Oct 2007 19:47

Except for all those pouring scorn on the General its already been done, Sovs (er.....I mean our Russian partners) NOTAM'd activity of a pair of Blackjacks down the usual route a few years back which saved the MC having to get up too early – nearly fell off my chair to get the paperwork and made working out the P time a breeze!

Green Flash 2nd Oct 2007 21:25

If I was a Ruskie i'd NOTAM a blizzard of Blackjacks, Backfires and Bears, get the entire CONUS air defence system out of bed, and stay in mine!:E

TEEEJ 2nd Oct 2007 21:28

As part of START/SORT the deployment of heavy strategic bombers is pre-announced by the Russians. For example if they forward deploy a heavy strategic bomber to say an Arctic operating base then they announce their intentions. It was all part of the deconfliction measures. Nobody wanted any mistakes to be made in regards to intentions involving such assets.

Of course the Russians don't have to announce their intentions with Tu-142s Bear F/Js. Possibly the good General might be appealing for all such out of area flights to be announced by the Russians to avoid confusion? Certainly the movements of Tu-22M Backfires don't have to be reported under treaty conditions, but they are detected flying to the extent of their ranges to Norwegian/Greenland seas. The Backfires could also fly missions into the Artic Ocean/Bering Sea and appear on U.S. radars and not need to be pre-announced.

http://www.afa.org/magazine/oct2007/1007watch.asp

A Pentagon spokeswoman stated

'She said that the flights were not provocative; unlike in Cold War years, the bombers made no dash toward US airspace, only to turn away at the last minute. Russian aviation authorities had been “completely transparent” about the activity, filing flight plans and issuing notices about where the airplanes would be going and when.'

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070718/69179730.html

'Col. Alexander Drobyshevsky quoted Col.-Gen. Alexander Zelin, Air Force commander, as saying.
Bomber flights in international airspace are planned at least six months ahead, and we inform all countries concerned about them in advance," his aide quoted him as saying.'

http://jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2372413

'Colonel Alexander Drobyshevsky, head of the Air Force press service had told me earlier that long-range flights by Russian strategic bombers are planned six months in advance, and one month in advance Russia notifies foreign states that it will occupy specific air corridors over international waters.'

Melchett01 2nd Oct 2007 22:00

As is often the way, a quick flick through the history books can provide an answer to many of today's pressing problems.

I believe we had a similar problem back in the 30s when we decided we were keen to avoid a repetition of the events in WW1 when the British mainland was caught unawares by the German Zeppelin force. To get round the pesky Hun and its dastardly underhand tactics and refusal to let us know when they were coming, we set up a radar based AD network.

Just think if the US military did the same now. Would save all sorts of problems with the Russians not telling the American authorities when they were coming, maybe even linking a few of these radars together in a chain(not sure what you would call it) and coordinating all the radar signals, bringing them together in one location for someone to coordinate the overall effort (maybe an aircrew type on a respite grd tour) with some pretty little things (possibly a Susannah York type) to move the information derived from these radar plots around a big map.

Just a thought, will probably never catch on though. Maybe would just be easier to ask the enemy to let them know when they are coming :E

L J R 3rd Oct 2007 04:03

And the Buffs, Bones, Spriits et al will put in a plan for all of their activities over intl airspace.....

ORAC 3rd Oct 2007 05:41

Back in the 80s the Russians started to routinely file flight plans for their Bear/May/Cub flights into the Norwegian Sea. When we intercepted them they complained via ICAO because we were infringing seperation standards on known aircraft.

The direction received from on high was that if they were on a flight plan, do not scramble the QRA. So we didn't.

So there is absolutely nothing unusual or strange about the General Renuart's request, he's just suggesting we implement the old status quo.


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