Many years ago I spent a delightful day at Coningsby with the, then, CO of BBMF. He was shortly to leave the service and needed to renew his civilian FI rating. I was then an CAA appointed FIE and agreed to do it in the Flights Chipmunk. All the ground element and pre-flight briefings were done in the BBMF facility and we had an enjoyable trip in the Chipmunk. I was happy to renew his rating and we repaired to the Mess for an excellent lunch.

As an individual who could not meet the service medical requirements for aircrew due to monaural hearing back in 1954 I have always retained my disappointment at being unable to follow my original chosen profession. Now with over 13,000 hours in my many logbooks that regret is still there but I have thoroughly enjoyed my flying in the civilian world.

Nevertheless it gave me a lot of pleasure to play for an hour or so with an item from "Betty's toybox". Happy memories.

Cheers,

Trapper 69
:)

I agree with everyone here that the 'Perks' of the job within the armed forces shouldn't be eroded and whats makes a good profession even better. I totally support the any little help we can get should be encouraged. But I can't agree with the vicious attacks at someone elses opinion.

This attitude is what's killing the RAF and the root cause of the rising PVR rate. Too many arrogant wankkkers treating the Royal Air Force as their own little flying club and having little regard for any others which they see as 'beneath them'. They forget about the lower ranks within the Airforce as they build their little empire. I see it so often .... it demoralises and destroys.

We've seemed to have lost our way somewhere. Everyone speaks about the good old days and I agree. So much has changed. The Airforce has 'Dumbed Down' and has lost all its loyality to its members.

If you think this is aimed at you then your probably one of the 'high and mighty' dickks who think just because you are in a trade which flies for a living you're better than anyone else. You're no better than anyone else. You just think you are.

That said, I appologise to a lot of good friends who are commissioned and also fly who are not at all so far up their own backsides that they have bad breath.

If you don't believe me, then go to any beercall on an RAF Unit and ask any of the groud trades their honest opinion of the Airforce when they've had a few beers. You'll get the message.

One other thing, this is a forum to exchange views, not annihilate other members for having a different take. I'll probably get loads of abuse now about something or another as all you pretentious bullies gang up and pat each other on the back whilst calling me something.

'Smoke on' you pratts ...... It doesn't bother me

Would this be the thread starter with a different log-in?

Stroker...

I think you are forgetting that you are on Prune! And lets face it, the original sentiment was never going to get sympathy on a military aircrew forum was it? I think the internet phrase for this sort of thing is troll...

The problem is that at the moment flying Nimrods are like hens teeth, so how can you can justify hijacking a sortie or even a small part of it to demonstrate some stuff to an instructor when the rest of the crew are missing out on vital, sorely lacking training?
If their is no impact on the sortie at all then fair enough and as long as everyone else gets a fair crack ( Not ) then I have no problem.

Toddy

If you had read the thread all the way through then you would have realised that there is no cost to the RAF, or any other member of the crew. All pilots in flying appointments do an Instrument Rating once per year. On ME types this will cover the full range of approaches required to meet a military and civilian rating.

So Pilot A (who requires a renewal on his military instrument rating) sits in the relevant seat; Pilot B is the military Instrument Rating Examiner and sits in the other seat and observes Pilot A; Pilot C is the CAA IRE and sits on the jump seat and also observes Pilot A. If everything goes to plan, and it should, Pilot A gets a military instrument rating from Pilot B and (on payment of the relevant amount) gets a civilian instrument rating from Pilot C.

No cost to the RAF. No loss of training to anyone else. No story. No issue!!

And I thought it strange that the only post supporting 2 post PAG was by 1 post Typhoon Saloon :E:E

Samuraipratt

In case you hadn't noticed, not all large RAF aircraft carry a Loady.

As has been previously stated on this thread, these checks are incorporated into normal, programmed training flights and it makes no odds to those down the back whether a CAA checker is on board or not.

I am not disputing that fact that an extra bod onboard would make any differenced to the Loady. At a certain secret airbase in Wilts these trips have been especially generated, sometimes at the weekend in order that the Captain, who pays the CAA examiner, can continue with his or her extended resettlement training and get their civvy IRT done prior to leaving.

As a former blunty of sorts, [but who spent many happy hours flying in anything, anywhere, because bludging 'rides' was a passion], my own personal doctrine was that the ONLY reason anyone other than aircrew were in the air force , was to allow them to fly aircraft. No matter how essential other people are, ultimately their reason for being is so aircraft can fly.

I only wish I'd kept a log of my flying , but I can recall well over 40 different types. I would have to toss up to decide if the best were the backseats of a Skyhawk at low level, or the front seat of a Stearman, [which I had to pay for!], or that wonderful Hunter trip at Tengah with 20 Sqn.

I don't see a problem.

just to summarise.....all the aircrew think its OK - and everyone else thinks it's not.

Not quite correct.

I am not aircrew and I certainly don't see any problems. As others have stated earlier, whatever "perks" we once had have been slowly eroded away.
Everything has changed in the last 30 years (and no I don't want to sound like Beagle - but I support his sentiments).

There are enough modern pressures which we face, indeed, it is quite depressing that some feel so strongly that they have to post an objection in here. (Along the lines of we hate the aircrew)

With re-settlement looming over the horizon, I would like to think our lords and masters recognise the fact that we have given a large slice of our lives in service and that it is reflected in preparation of donning the civvies. (Even if this isnt the case - who really cares? Grab whatever perks you can)

As for mis-appropiation.................do me a favour! This isnt exactly buying priceless wallpaper from public funds is it?


SJ

You speak of perks....surely being taught the skills to get a job on the outside is one of them and lets face it being taught to fly is probably the most expensive there is. Should there be a line in the sand?

Which is why there is a return of service commitment - which used to be X years on award of wings, but may have changed. Very few get to leave before they have given Betty some use of the skills she's paid for, and the ones that do are the unfortunates who have been medically downgraded.

What do you suggest - keep them in harness until they drop or are so decrepit that even Ryanair won't hire them?

www.fmwf.com/newsarticle.php?id=225&cat=6
Why is Steph with Nicolas Parsons?

Absolutely priceless. Good luck to the lass, she seems a pleasant young woman and her resettlement training might well prove a great investment for her future financial prospects.

I would watch her anytime however my wife might well have other ideas.

Cheers,

Trapper 69
:cool::cool::cool::cool:

As I said in my post #59, what's the problem is someone applies the rules in an imaginative and flexible manner? This young lady has, literally, and good luck to her! I'm only jealous cos the waafys weren't like that when I were a lad. :{

AA

Absolutely right. For pilot it is currently 6 years from completion of first OCU - the longest Return of Service in the military IIRC. Prior to completion of OCU it is 3 years. Every course in the RAF (military?) has a return of service, once you have done that you are deemed to have repaid the investment.

DB and that is why it attracts the longest ROS.