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-   -   RAF lifestyle (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/283457-raf-lifestyle.html)

coolblackcat 10th Jul 2007 12:52

RAF lifestyle
 
Hey.

In my previous topic's I've recieved posts about how bad the RAF life is, and how badly the RAF treats you.

What is so bad about it?

(please mention if you are a RAF member or not in your posts, thanks)

Seldomfitforpurpose 10th Jul 2007 12:56

Would you like our names ranks and service numbers as well.................:ugh:

Fuc@in trolls, should be taken out and shot :}

RobinXe 10th Jul 2007 13:17

I'm in the RAF and I love my job!

Who wouldn't like more pay and a nicer gaff to crash in, but I head to work every morning with a smile on my face, and I don't know how many of my civvie mates can honestly say that!

Doha_lad 10th Jul 2007 13:18

Give him a break....
 
Looking at his previous posts, I don't think he is a troll, just someone who wants to join the mob and is rightly a little concerned about the general feeling of serving personnel.

ML I left a year ago so am a little out of touch. Things changed a lot in my 13 years, but then again when I joined you had people telling you ' it's not the same as when I joined'

If you really want to do it, then do it. Get through training then make the most of it.

Best wishes for the future

DL

Inspector Dreyfuss 10th Jul 2007 13:41

Servicemen like moaning and there is a good healthy dose of dark humour in most of our characters. The fact is, many of us couldn't bear the thought of civilian life (plenty of my mates have re-joined after leaving in fact). We do get particularly pi**ed off though when a lot of the rubbish that we joined the military to avoid is forced on us. For example: management plans and associated management BS, budgetary nonsense (false economies), red tape such as belts and braces health and safety regulations (no substitute for common sense), erosion of personal and professional standards, 'holier than thou' attitudes from senior people who should no better, interference from the Treasury, politicians with no military experience, Defence Secretaries (and PMs come to think of it) with no wish to understand defence, hypocrites in public life (and senior officers that won't admit that we are under-resourced), irresponsible (not all) journalists after a good story and witch hunts, crap kit etc - I could go on.

Bottom line - we like being in the Service, we are different to civilians and would like to be recognised as such. we are proud of our individual services. Is there another public sector that delivers as well as we do? I don't think so.

pba_target 10th Jul 2007 13:41

Matt,

Generally life is alright! Everyone whinges but as a great man once said, worry about the soldiers when they stop complaining......

Really, tis not a bad job, so long as you're a flexible person who doesn't mind the odd bit of niff naff & triv.

BluntM8 10th Jul 2007 15:23

ML,

I'm in (trainee aircrew) and thoroughly enjoy it. Sure, I grumble from time to time but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Blunty

Echo 5 10th Jul 2007 15:37


Seldomfitforpurpose
Fuc@in trolls, should be taken out and shot
This guy mattd.lewis couldn't be related to the samuraiprat per chance ?
Just a thought. :)

Phil_R 10th Jul 2007 15:49

> we are different to civilians

Oh yes, because obviously, all civilians are exactly alike.

Echo 5 10th Jul 2007 16:04


> we are different to civilians
Oh yes, because obviously, all civilians are exactly alike.
Sorry ??????? Was that in response to any particular post ?:confused:

Sailor Vee 10th Jul 2007 16:35

Re-read #5 by Inspector Dreyfuss, Mr Echo. Does he think he'll never be a civvie? The only ones that don't make it are under the ground!:(

wokkameister 10th Jul 2007 16:54

For gods sake!

Either join up and find out, or let it go!

WM

Pontius Navigator 10th Jul 2007 17:34

Matt, how did you get on with your enquiry/application? PM me if you wish.

bunta130 10th Jul 2007 18:14

Matt

I have been in for 25 years, seen the world, had some great times and some (what seemed at the time, but on reflection were not so bad) bad times. If I had a chance to change anything major........I would not, and would gladly repeat the whole experience. I think that many do not really appreciate their lot until they leave. Should you join, I guarantee that you will never lack a 'story' to tell your civvy mates in a bar, you will never meet a nicer bunch of people (some notable exceptions) and you will never be alone for a gripe and whinge at the System.

Yes, times are harder now than 25 years ago. Yes, it often seems like our lords and masters do not care as much as they should. Yes, the politicos overuse us. Yes, JPA is still a farce......I could go on but, on balance, it is still a hoot.

Go do it.....or at least try......

Happy to help more if you have any further questions.

stevef 10th Jul 2007 19:39

Some of the posters in the Mil Section don't do the Royal Air Force, their rank or themselves any favours. Once they get a sniff of blood, they're off on a feeding frenzy. I saw one guy hounded from this section, he then posted his request for information in AH & N, only to be pursued by one of the Mils intent on humiliating him. He subsequently pulled his posts and left. A sad reflection, it really is.
It's very easy to hide behind a psuedonym and hurl insults. If you are in a position of responsibility, would you do it to your subordinates? Probably not. And if you do, you don't deserve your rank anyway.
Matt - I've been out of the RAF for many years and it's obviously not the same as it was back in the seventies so I can't give any advice other than to ignore the puerile snipes that you'll come across on here; thankfully they're in the minority.
Good luck with whatever you decide on.

Dave Angel 10th Jul 2007 19:58

Matt,

I've been in 18 years as NCA and have very much enjoyed my time.
Yes, there have been hard times and at the moment the sand pit is getting wearing for many but there are a lot worse ways to spend your life.
The job is interesting and no two days are the same, I've seen much of the world in my time that I would not of otherwise and the rate of pay isn't bad.
We've always had moaners just like any other profession but the grass isn't always greener.
If I had my time again, with the knowledge I have now would I still sign up?...............Damn right I would - no regrets :ok:

L1A2 discharged 10th Jul 2007 21:10

Matt,

As many have said, join young, enjoy what you can with a smile on your face. :)

I've had a great 30 + years, just a crap last one taking the shine off. :(

Pontius Navigator 11th Jul 2007 06:54

I think the remark about civilians was taken out of context.

We were civilians, we live among civilians, we retire and become civilians. Also, as Phil said, civilians are not exactly alike and that is the nub.

Once in the military we are in a uniformed service. It is us who are alike. It is us who are different. Later we may become civilians but we retain military ethos.

"Where you a navigator" No, I am a navigator I am simply not flying at the moment.

Or as retaled by th eman himself

"Hey, weren't you Brian Rix" Well a last time I looked I think I am still Brian Rix.

StuartP 11th Jul 2007 09:12


Later we may become civilians but we retain military ethos.
How true that is. I've worked with a few ex-forces people over the years, they're generally the ones who get on with the job and then moan about it aftewards (if at all), while the rest of us are still checking our conditions to see if they can (a) make us do it and (b) if they can, how much we can screw it for overtime. They were generally a lot better turned out than us too.

Stuart (Lifelong civvie who wishes he'd been less of a coward at 18...)

Echo 5 11th Jul 2007 11:55


Once in the military we are in a uniformed service. It is us who are alike. It is us who are different. Later we may become civilians but we retain military ethos.
Two good posts from both PN and StuartP.

It has been well documented on various threads within this Forum that many people are now looking to leave the Services mainly because of the F@ck factor and I can fully empathize with them. Spending so much time away from family and loved ones must be very difficult and stressful.

However, the grass is not always greener on the other side. I was lucky after leaving the RAF as I went to work in the Magic Kingdom alongside a 99% ex services work force so I didn't experience the culture shock immediately.

It wasn't until I returned to UK and civvy street proper that I found out what civilian life was really like.

StuartP summed it up nicely

I've worked with a few ex-forces people over the years, they're generally the ones who get on with the job and then moan about it aftewards (if at all), while the rest of us are still checking our conditions to see if they can (a) make us do it and (b) if they can, how much we can screw it for overtime. They were generally a lot better turned out than us too.
How true.

Phil_R 11th Jul 2007 19:44

Yes. Obviously, all civilians, as well as being alike, are also lazy, scruffy and rapacious.

Phil

Pontius Navigator 11th Jul 2007 19:49

er Phil, it was a fellow civvie who wrote that. Are you agreeing then?

And Phil, I believe I said civvies were not alike.

Phil_R 11th Jul 2007 21:20

I once worked with an ex-Army officer. Can't say it particularly stuck out, but boy, could that guy iron a shirt.

Phil

Pontius Navigator 11th Jul 2007 21:30

'course non-iron would not have been invented if it weren't for civvies.

Suade shoes ditto.

Mind you, Phil the Greek wore suades but then he wasn't British.

Melchett01 11th Jul 2007 21:33


I was lucky after leaving the RAF as I went to work in the Magic Kingdom
Waddington or Disney Land? ;) Sorry, couldn't resist that one!

coolblackcat 11th Jul 2007 22:01

Firstly, thanks for all your posts, specially Navigator's post and PM, and spacially "wokkameister"'s post, which made me realize how much of a p**f I'm being (I'm not being sarcastic, even though it seems so).

Secondly; all military tecnology, lifestyle, etc, comes from civilian sources.
For example; a sword came from making civilian iron objects, fighter planes come from civilian airplanes, nuclear weapons come from civilian nuclear reaction studies, etc etc.

Civilian life is the "normal" thing to do, 90% (not a precise porcentage, just a saying) of the world is civilian. A civilian can have a great job, or could be cleaning some McDonnald's toilets; Civilians are VERY different from each other.

That's the thing that military life has that really atracts me; it shows every member comun routines, information, and lifestyles. It's like a university for "life" degrees; it teaches you a way of living, that you partly never forget. Also, it takes you to places that you'll never see, teaches you things that you'll never do,... if you were a civie. Many of my favorite writers have been in the military lifestyle.

I'm going for the military life; no doubt. If the RAF reject me, I'll try the army, if they reject me, I'll try Canada (im half canadian), if not, I'll try Spain (I live in Spain).

Thank you all.

Matt D. Lewis

Pontius Navigator 11th Jul 2007 22:04

Matt, very perceptive.

StuartP 12th Jul 2007 08:20


Obviously, all civilians, as well as being alike, are also lazy, scruffy and rapacious.
That wasn't actually what I said but I'm not going to get drawn into an argument. I work/have worked with some great people, 99% of whom have never had any connection with the military in any form, but the ones that have stand out. And yes, they all appear to be expert at ironing/polishing things.

Good luck Matt.

PingDit 8th Aug 2007 16:30

Matt,

I fully concur with the likes of PN. I'm just passing my 36th year in the RAF and wouldn't trade a moment. It takes the bad times to remember the good. From what you say in your second post, you would appear ideal for military life. It is a schooling in 'life', you will undoubtedly meet people from within the services who will remain lifelong friends and whatever job you end up doing is generally rewarding. Pays pretty good too. Good luck.

First_In_Last_Out 8th Aug 2007 16:43

Make sure you bring a good sense of humour, u'll need it! :)

PTC REMF 8th Aug 2007 16:44

20 yrs+, It's money for old rope.

soddim 8th Aug 2007 17:32

Can't think of any other organisation in UK that pays good money for anyone to fly fighters.

Did it for 36 years - took some rough with the smooth - net feeling one of having had a good deal.

You'll not find me among the whingers!

jumpjumpjohn 8th Aug 2007 18:34

Matt,
As someone who's been in for about 4 years now, I'd definately say that it's worth it. The flying rocks - especially on ops, despite the obvious disadvantages of being away a lot - and I don't know of anywhere else where they pay you so well to do a hobby.

Agreed, there is an ever-increasing level of frustration at the continual erosion of the few remaining benefits (see the MQ thread on this forum for a good example) but I think that 90% of aircrew will freely admit to not being happy unless they've got something to moan about. After all, if it really was that bad then we'd all leave.

No doubt it isn't as good as it used to be when some people joined up, but then not much in the world is anymore. As long as you go into the decision with both eyes open you won't go far wrong. As people have said above, beware of people on here who have been in for 25 years and are now jaded by it all, and possibly slightly detached from the reality of being a 1st/2nd tourist shag pilot on the front line (stand by for abuse!).
Any specific questions then send me a PM,
Regards, JJJ

PS - For interest, the average time away on the SH fleet is between 4-5 months of the year - it's bad but not that bad.

buoy15 8th Aug 2007 19:09

Mattd
You need to set your sights on your future
Do you think you will be looking through a HUD - a periscope on a tank or submarine - or down the barrel of an Armalite, SA80, AK47 or RPG - or through rose tinted glasses?
I have to agree with you about the military teaching on living and going places you'll never see and things you would never do - if you were a civvie!
Like going to Manchester, London and Bristol for a night out, for fear of getting shot
I'll try, I'll try, I'll try - RAF, Army, Canada, Spain - such loyalty and devotion - what about the Salvation Army?
You come across as desperate to be cannon fodder so you can be like us
Are your parents supervising you whilst you are on this thread?

Toadstool 8th Aug 2007 19:25

Mattd

I'm quite sad as I still love my job. Spent 15 years in another service, which was great, but saw the light and became NCA which is better. As with anything it can be a pain in the a**e at times, and sometimes it seems like some people invent more and more hoops to jump through just to get on Ops. That said, the pros outway the cons........at the moment.

coolblackcat 8th Aug 2007 21:33

Another question inside the topic:

How much free time do you get?
I know it must depend on the roll and that, but generally...

Thanks

Farfrompuken 8th Aug 2007 21:44

As a Nation the Brits are Premium whingers.

As we're a bunch of professionals, anyone in the forces is by default a Professional Whinger.

If it's too good, we'll gripe. If it aint we'll moan.
It comes with drinking tea....

As for spare time, who pays you to go: sailing/surfing/mountain biking etc etc in your spare time. And that's ontop of your day job doing the best that flying can offer you.

Sure we don't get paid spectacularly, but the airlines will expect their pound of flesh too.

Pontius Navigator 19th Aug 2007 08:06


Originally Posted by mattd.lewis (Post 3463572)
Another question inside the topic:
How much free time do you get?
I know it must depend on the roll and that, but generally...
Thanks

Usually as much as 5-6 hours per day. Some days more, some days less. At Cranditz in the first weeks nearer the 5.:}
PS, if you didn't guess, that includes sleep.
PPS. Years ago civilians got 2 weeks holiday per year and military officers got 7 weeks including bank holidays. Next year ALL civilians will get 6 weeks which may include bank holidays AND all servicemen will also get the same. Now that is an erosion in comparability and the AFPRB said it was entirely in the gift of the military how much leave was granted and was not part of our pay and conditions.
When we had that great leave advantage we also had a half or full days travelling time to get home. Then this was routinely 'stretched' to include all ranks. Then some beanie said it was cheating and it was stopped. More erosion.

Bob the Doc 19th Aug 2007 08:20

I wouldn't say that all mil technology started as civ stuff.

As an example...

The self-inflating life jacket was designed for military pilots and especially the neck roll that stops you ending up face down...

And the Bain co-axial anaesthetic circuit was designed to allow these things to be tested (with anaesthetised volunteers in a swimming pool).

airborne_artist 19th Aug 2007 09:13

PN

Not quite true:

From the DTI web site
The statutory holiday entitlement is changing. The holiday entitlement will increase to 4.8 weeks (24 days if you work a five day week) from 1 October 2007 and to 5.6 weeks (28 days if you work a five day week) from 1 April 2009, pro-rata for those working part-time.

That includes bank holidays, though most employers will give BHs as additional days off.


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