Nope. Use the M50 in and the M4 out and don't pay at all. That'll scotch the Welsh nationalists a treat.

I believe the Midlands hasn't a monopoly on unemployment.
Incidentally The No. 4 School of Technical Training has been based at Saints for over 60 years.

Chivenor to Brawdy September 1974, and back again, August 1980.... North Devon was a liberal constituency that was never going to vote Labour, whilst Pembrokeshire had a Labour MP with a small majority.
At least it gave them the chance to replace the wartime accomodation at Heaven-in-Devon, and nowadays, I'm sure the Royal Marines appreciate it....
If PPrune was around at the time, what interesting reading it would have made!!!

In Private Eye # 1171 Dated 10th November
 

(Scan, cut and paste from page 29)
A consortium known as Metrix has emerged as favourite for at least one of the two defence training PFI contracts reckoned to be worth around£19bn. But who is behind the snappily-named outfit set to be handed access to much of Britain’s military technology and be relied upon to prepare the armed forces for operations for 15 years?
Providing the computer capability is – uh, oh! EDS, the company’s record of screwing up CSA, the Inland Revenue tax credits, and more recently the forces own personnel administration system seems to have recommended itself to MoD bosses
Other members include Qinetiq, 30% owned by US investment fund Carlyle, which acquired the shares some 5 years ago through the part privatisation of DERA; and Augusta Westlands, bought by Italian defence giant Finmeccanica a couple of years ago. Success for Metrix would represent an early success for Finmeccanica director Lord Bach, who as defence minister in the last parliament approved the Augusta acquisition.
And who could doubt the credentials of Raytheon? Among the blots are:
Conviction for illegally obtaining classified documents (1990)
Over charging on Government contracts (1994)
Compensation to a competitor for spying (1999)
$410m settlement with investors over false accounts (2004)
Private education company Nord Anglia secures a birth despite financial troubles and a questionable record of privatising schools in local authorities. In September last year it was forced to lay off 100 staff and flog its headquarters as it lost money on a chain of nurseries.
And no consortium would be complete without one of Britain’s finest outsourcers, in this case Serco – the firm that earlier this year admitted that its dismal performance on prisoner tagging only improved when it was threatened with swingeing penalties.
Metrix has the crucial cabinet-level of Welsh Secretary Peter Hain. The consortium will be based in the RAF’s St Athan site in Wales and use a £100m “super-hangar” that the MoD built just before the aircraft repairs it was designed for were moved out. Though extreamly unpopular with MoD staff, the move would therefore spare some blushes, even it means handing over training of the country’s armed forces to the most motley of crews

Could history repeat itself? What about the contractor that went to the job centre in Llantwit Major with the question to all plumbers and the like:- 'can you hold a spanner' whilst they were trawling for specialised airframe staff to satisfy their hard won contract.

Somewhile later an undisclosed number of Tonkas (18) had fasteners pulled out with claw hammers and drills "waggled" through holes that were meant to have 'shrunk fit' fasteners replaced in them! I think the MoD got about £5M for each of the kites that were affected and the specific company changed its name and is still in business today.

Heard a rumour today that new quarters are being built at the welsh site, and that it started 2 weeks ago. Could it be that someone has been given the nod by our most honest and trustworthy (mainly of celtic origin) government? Still I suppose the rest of us will find out on 27th Nov, unless they put it back again.

No it doesn't, but this proposal isn't about creating NEW jobs at all, it is a sickening and cynical horse trading in existing jobs at Cosford and of course the equivalent sites run by the other two services. It is about sacrificing employment and popularity in one region with the aim of making poliical gains in another. Where S Wales gains - if it does gain - someone else loses their livelihood.
But no matter as long as it ultimately keeps some unprincipled goon in Whitehall in theirs eh?
This was never even supposed to be a political decision, but give a politician a chance to score points and, to quote the hackneyed old saying, in the overall clamour to kick the alligators off ones ass we forget that the original aim was to drain the swamp.

It appears the decesion has been put back yet again. I was informed by someone it might be due to the fact someone asked a rather probing question. Something along the lines of the government awarding itself a contract. Could it be down to their stake in QuinetiQ or the fact the money the Welsh Development Agency were offering to plough into said progect actually comes from the tax payers pocket? If I am wrong then so be it as I'm sure there are members of this community that know a great deal more than myself on this matter.

Indeed it could! I believe that's how the Buccaneer came to disintegrate all over the place in the 80s.

Blackburn, to save dosh and, I believe, for the lack of suitably qualified machinists, decided to employ 'craftsmen' when they won the contract for the NA39 to make the aircraft. They needed highly skilled craftsmen, it was allegedly decided. And found them in the shape of carpenters from the furniture building trade.

These craftsmen didn't understand the need to make machined edges round and polished, to stop crack propagation through flexing. No understanding of 3xd before drilling holes near edges.

And no one worried about it until aircrew lost their lives. I wish I were kidding. Perhaps it's all a dream....

... quite likely. Particularly as the WDA ceased to exist on 1 Apr 06 and was absorbed into .........the Welsh Assembly Government!

Decision / announcement delayed
 

No surprises. The announcement has been delayed to 'next year'. Some say 'early in 2007', others don't.

The last I heard was that Jan 07 is when we will next hear something. Probably that the announcement will be put back till later in the year.

Well, after all the agonising, rumour and counter rumour the big day dawns tomorrow (17th Jan)
The Cmd at Cosford will brief personnel on the preferred bidder decision at 12 O'Clock, parliament will be told tomorrow as well.
The BBC Wales website which has been all but moving the aircraft from Cosford to St Athan over the past few months tells us that a number of Welsh MPs have been invited to Downing Street afterwards...for congratulatory champers and one supposes :*

What else would you expect from a government that is full of celtic loonies. Nought like jobs for the boy(o)s. I do hope some searching questions are asked about how the decision was reached. Could it have been something to do with jobs on boards or backhanders?

If anyone is unsure as to who makes up the metrix consortium then I suggest you take a look at the metrixuk website, or link via qinetiq's website, and draw up your own conclusions.

;)
What 'Blue Suiters' ?


'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

There goes the neighbourhood then.

CG

I wouldn't hold your breath! Here's a very interesting news clip from today's Torygraph.

A consortium bidding for a huge contract to privatise all non-military training for the armed forces has tabled a last-minute revised offer to do the work for at least £1bn less.

I think there's a lot more water to pass under the bridge yet!! Remember, it's only a Preferred Bidder decision. As Mr Branson found out, Preferred Bidders don't always win!

Because we all know that BAe and Vosper Thornycroft are past-masters at delivering the goods on time, on spec and on budget for Auntie Betty. :ugh:
Nice to see that the golf club's staying.

Take a load of triservice trainee mechanics/fitters and place them in the same locale as Paras, Marines, and Rocks.

Mix with liberal quantities of beer and observe results.

Oh Dear!

Well thats it. Metrix has won the bid and the whole shooting match will transfer to St Athan commencing 2011. Civvey personel will transfer to the new partner during 2008 after which they can be made redundant.
Errr excuse me, redundencies? So just how many of these 5000 jobs are being created around St Athan then :confused:

1500 according to the Times.

Super Blunder
 

Anyone else heard that the person responsible for the study into this new Academy is also the same PR*T who signed up to the Super Hangar?

And what now for Cosford?

If this is going to be the new 'Centre for excellence' does that mean until now, our training has been below standard?

We are assuming of course, this money is not being spent on Wales to earn votes! Cut free these klingon colonies (like they want!) and England will be far better off for it !!

Contreversial, but true !!

Listening to some of the hyperbole and guff thats been sprouted over the past few months, you would genuinely think it has! Some of the language used has been quite offensive to the current staff who have been delivering training to service personnel for a good few decades now, and whatever one thinks of the training regime its done a pretty good job IMHO.
We have been told, for example, that we would receive the necessary training to deliver the highest quality of technical instruction, oh really :confused: So we haven't been capable of doing that up to now then?
An in-house bid was not considered because it couldn't be innovative enough, oh really:confused: I can't be innovative in the way I do my job then? Bollox!

Our good commandant was accompanied by a Prof Molineux who apparently headed up the decision making team. he gave a quick spiel on the whys and wherefors of the decision and at the end stated that it wasn't a political decision..... Really? So why the hell did you feel the need to tell us that then eh prof :rolleyes:

Tonka the plum said:

"We are assuming of course, this money is not being spent on Wales to earn votes! Cut free these klingon colonies (like they want!) and England will be far better off for it !!"

Course it's for votes. It's our 'loony Celts' turn. You Saxon-Norman-German mongrels had long enough a turn. Be fair!

As for klingons being cut free............ Lord give me strength.

CG

(One of the huge majority of klingons who are British and don't want independence.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6268427.stm
:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:


NAAFI Bop will be interesting with all the inter service testosterone kicking about.
Duty Officer and SNCO are going to be busy

Concur.

Ymlaen Britain!

Nahhh, give ME strength :ugh: :ugh:

South Wales has had its share of the cake before and blew it.......

......Thinks DARA...hmmmmm, cat 5'd Tornado, trade practices that made H Bloggs garage look like a Ferrari main dealer..........

And now, like Oliver Twist, it wants some more :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Split

You seriously think the location was the cause of that debacle? Nothing to do with the civilianisation of military a/c servicing, swiftly followed by lowest bidder gets the cheapest labour- monkeys and nuts etc?

CG

The vast majority of people in Wales Do Not Want Independence thank you very much, as much as we do not want a Welsh Assembly.
It may surprise people to know that not only were those 5000 jobs announced today but also a further 1000 jobs elsewhere in the region by private investors, it is an area ripe for investment and growth.
This was one bid that all the political parties , local businesses and general population got behind.

So would this new centre of excellence be the same centre of excellence that trashed the Tornados in the early 90s???

http://www.parliament.the-stationery.../1129/1129.pdf

Makes interesting reading, gives an indication of what exactly other than fresh air was going through their minds during the decision making process. Was interesting to see that Members of the Welsh Assembly argued that St Athan would be good because it had a drive to work population of 600,000 within 45 mins and an academic & trg infrastructure to support the development. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I reckon Cosford has the potential for a far greater sub-45min drive to work population than St Athan (I think Bham has a population > 1million and the West Midlands conurbation > 2 million).

And as for the academic & trg facilities near to Athan: in addition to those already at Cosford, there are universities at Bham, Aston, Wolves, Coventry, Stafford, Keele - all near by. And in the proposal, I don't see any mention of Cardiff based educational establishments getting involved in supporting the development.

But as it also clearly states in the report, Wales provides 9% of all MOD recruiting, but gets only 6% of MOD funding (cracking logic here).

1. Maybe that's because Wales doesn't have many bases / facilities there that it only gets 6% of the funding.

2. If you build at St Athan, does that mean that all those 9% will go there?

3. So what if Wales provides 9% of all recruits?! That just means that 91% come from elsewhere - why not put it somewhere else.

Looks like another Noo Labour smoke & mirrors job!:sad: Oh well, if nothing else, at least that's one Labour MP guaranteed to keep hold of his seat at the next election.

Not at all. I was simply responding to the apparent suggestion that South Wales should have got this investment by dint of some economic our-turn-ology. I was pointing out that the region has had a previous chance to make good on a major defence contract and screwed it up big style.

Wales provides 9% of all recruits do they? What's that then, a couple of regimental mascot sheep and the manpower for the Welsh regiments within the army? Let's all give a big well done to Wales then. As for only getting 6% of MoD funding, why should they get more? That leaves 94% to be spent around the rest of the UK on things such as ESF for Hercs, the correct kit for the troops in the sand pit, as well as other bad places. Aeroplanes don't keep themselves in the air Neil and it isn't magic either.

Oh well the votes have been bought, I suppose we will have to put up and shut up.

Now just watch the Tolls on the Severn bridges rocket. Maybe this will bring in more VAT for Mr Brown.:)

Will it cost as much to demolish Cosford as they have spent on it over the last 10 years or so?

One has to remember that England has never returned a majority for a labour government, they get into power purely on the votes of the regions, namely Scotland and Wales. Did we really think that NuLab could ever see this contract go to an English shire? As far as NuLab are concerned, the MOD are little more than a job creation scheme for whichever unfortunate constituency has the misfortune to be landed with a labour MP :hmm:

So let me set the record straight, The cock up at Saints was put down to the private company Airworks ! Now the MOD would never contract this company again.... or would it ?

Renamed VT Aerospace, as many of you know they are now providing us:-

air engineering and maintenance training
aircraft rectifications and modifications
antenna maintenance
communications systems
computer networking
ground-based radar systems
management training
project management
simulator maintenance
structural modifications
technical recruitment
vehicle modifications

Not bad for a company that damaged more than 15 of our finest frames !!!!

Due largely to that particular company's inability to recruit labour, skilled in the aerospace sector, from the local marketplace at the price it was willing to pay.
In spite of its geographical advantage, Cosford regularly has problems recruiting AND retaining the personnel it needs at the price the MOD is willing to pay. So, unless Metrix is prepared to up the ante and recruit the right people at the right price then it is likely to hit upon the same problems. But not to worry, as long as the board members and senior managers get their company cars eh?
Oh it'll find staff alright, but you pay peanuts, you get monkeys as they say. And if you're happy for the future airforce to be trained by monkeys then fine. But don't for one second try to tell me that Metrix will do a better (or even on-par) job of it using people who haven't ever faced the day to issues every liney has to contend with than the old sweats at Cosford/Halton ever could.

Taking an objective view, is it not better to choose a site with a large developed airfield with plenty of room for expansion compared to an airfield on a restrictive site in the congested West Midlands?
On a subjective note I think the new museum building at Cosford is a monstrosity which has ruined the appearance and ambience of the place!

With this lot forming 'Metrix' http://www.metrixuk.com/ what could possibly go wrong . . . . . . . ?

Banal & insulting to the point of stupidity! Never met an Englishmen, Jock,Taff or Paddy outside a unit with regional connections?None in the RAF or RN?
It was the 'British' armed forces in which I served,what about you?

Oh dear PJ,

You don't wanna go suggesting objectivity round here mate!

CG