Dog Fighter
 

This one seems to have even more thrust than the Javelin had drag! Didn't BAe advertise the Eurofighter as a world class dog fighter? :O

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2002313961490667235

Pretty eyeopening stuff. Haven't seen the Typhoon demonstrate that sort of agility yet, but then perhaps they feel that sort of manoevering is simply showboating?

The Mig29OVT pulled off similarly spectacular airshow stunts at Fairford and Farnborough a couple of months ago.

Very impressive. Shows how far FCS, thrust vectoring etc has got.

Pretty much useless for actually fighting, of course, but looks great at airshows!:cool:

Perhaps it cannot imitate the 29 and is a dog of a fighter in reality?

Important question is what BVR capability has it got compared to the Typhoon?

Nice party trick - could be quite useful against a Spitfire.

Didn't we replace them on the front line?

Very easy to be smug about russian kit.
They think differently than the west, but their kit is spectacular in its way.
I used to mock their Helos till I flew one.
I suspect that one of these days some nation flying US kit is going to get a big surprise.

Backwards PLT, What makes you say that it wouldn't be much use in real combat? It would certainly make eyes water!

I can not imagine rules of Engagement allowing BVR these days, especially for the RAF.

See here .
New Mig 29 has 3D OVT as opposed to 2D like the Sukhoi. Alot of us would have seen this at Farnborough or Fairford, but this is for those of you that haven't.

And quite a few stills of the OVT here too. Think they are mainly on page 7.

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...20not%20happy/

Conan

If the ROE ban BVR engagements....then why have that capability? Seems like a lot of expense for nothing. If the other side does....it makes getting into position to knife fight a bit risky. Seems it is easier to change the ROE to favor the Home Team vice the Visitors.

I have been involved in one of those self-inflicted wound deals....that is not the way to fight a war.

All the latest Indian Sukhois have 3D TVC. ±30° vertical plane and ±15° in the horizontal plane.

Formerflake

I hope your wrong about the RoE - otherwise pretty much all western fighter philosophy / design is a complete waste of money and time. The senate/house wont be happy to hear it, thats for sure! Not to mention that all current training is pretty much pointless. I dont really think that all the western air forces are completely wrong. Maybe they know something??

In reality I think BVR decs are now more likely than ever - not less.

How Good is the Opposition
 

Tourist,

Interesting response, I did an ACM famil Brit Hels v Sov Hels with shed loads of conclusions . The main 'get you home for breakfast' rule being the opposite to Top Gun - 'You can run but you can't hide'. With hels its the other way round - 'You can hide but you can't run' Sov hels have an eye watering top speed but a three counties turning circle.

Low Ball

Ahhhhhhhh.....the true fighter jet. Surely what we need these days is a nice multi-purpose jet, able to deliver smart ground attack munitions and also capable of mounting a good modern air-to-air missile and making the odd supersonic intercept (bring on the JSF). Until then what have we got? An overdue, out of date, pointless, sickeningly expensive aircraft (86 million each and rising) that needs a tanker unless it is to do anything other then patrol the skies around it's own airbase. If it is fitted with a ground attack role then you can bet the price will rise and then it probably wont be any good at that, certainly no better then the Jaguar or Harrier. We don't need a super agile dog fighter, if there is some fantastically brave opponent willing to have a pop in their rusting Mig then they would just get shot down by a long range missile. Why on earth did we persue such a project? And what aircraft could I be talking about I wonder???

Yes, the Eurofighter. Probably the most expensive and pointless British military aircraft since the Anti-sub Merlin!! Designed to fight the wars of yesterday. We could have replaced our entire fighter force with F-15s for the price of two or three Eurofighters. Buy British and sod the consequences! Why does the Government insist on keeping BAe afloat buy purchasing cr*p at stupid prices? Jobs for the UK workers?? PLEASE!! If all BAe's staff end up in the dole queue that's no worse then what happens to a lot of ex-servicemen (many of which end up homeless).

Controversial I know and I am sure that there are a few pilots out there who have flown the Eurofighter and rate it as an excellent aeroplane. But really hand on heart can you say that it is a necessary expenditure. It may be a great aircraft, but maybe it has already had its day??

MFWF:ugh: :ugh:

BVR
 

IIRC Eurofighter/Typhoon's and Raptor's agility has been stressed as a plus in their performance; if you limit your aspirations to BVR engagements was there any point in improving on F14/Phoenix or even (for our older viewers) F101/Genie?

Not contraversial, just naive! Suggest that you go and do the sums and that you talk to the chaps who are flying it. Sloghtly more capable than you suggest. Furthermore to cancel it would cost about as much as to buy it. For once they got the contract right, at least to lock the other partner nations into agreed workshares and numbers.:E

What newspaper do you read m8?