Double Winged Brevets for RAAF Non-Pilots.........
 

Is it just me, or am I right to be piss@d as hell about people who haven't done WINGS test wearing WINGS (note plural)?? And what of the 70-80 odd years of blood, sweat and history behind the flippantly-discarded Nav (etc) Brevet? The bucket of sh%t is starting to fill...:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Whizz...
 

What has brought this on?? Is there new category recognition brevet being awarded for no apparent reason :confused:

Royal Navy aircrewmen have a pair of wings, and anything USA associated with airborne forces has the same. You dont need the sticks to be a member of the master race:}

And pity the non-pilot members of the RAF, who have had the history of their individual brevets thrown out without getting a second wing, as most forces around the world give most aircrew branches - I actually don't mind what badge non-pilots wear; I have a sneaking suspicion that those pilots in the (increasingly few) forces that begrudge this are a little scared they might not hold their own against the more able Navs, AEOs etc.

Remember badges are only symbols, the substance is in the person.

Do these annoy you?

http://www.stewart-aviation.co.uk/images/172.JPG

Nice One AA!

Nah,

they're easy to get, you don't even need to be able to land the a/c to get those! ;)

Although I do admit that jumping out of the back of one with a bergen, Gimpie & a milan strapped to your torso does deserve some sort of recongition, such as being sectioned!!

Add on the Clansman 320, the demolitions kit, plenty of rounds for the GPMG and AR16 and a few LAW 66s and you might be about right.

Then do the jump at night :ok:

AA- Perhaps he's getting them confused with the 'easier' ones (although they're not exactly easy to get).
http://www.jdfmil.org/equipment/unif.../parawings.jpg

I am aware of the difference Stacker!

I had the pleasure of watching some TA SAS guys (not sure if they were 21 or 23) jumping out of a Herc in Jul '95 whilst on a skydiving course at Weston On The Green. As a lower priority course, we had to sit aside whilst the big boys jumped their Accelerated Freefall jumps with a 22 chap on each arm, superb stuff. Us low lifes on the sports course felt rather insignificant whilst standing around in our orange jump suits watching grown men land with enough hardwear to start a small war on 'em!!!

Fair play to you AA, I thought I'd done well getting up to a 56 sec delay wearing nothing more that a wrist altimeter, soiled boxershorts & a jumpsuit!

Relatively speaking the para courses were not seen as hard work. I never saw anyone fail one, put it that way. 273 people started the Selection I passed. 12 finished.:cool:

Whizz,
'ave you been sleepin for the past 5 FIVE years man.
Navs (WSOP, Airborne Tactixions or whatever they are called 'ave 'ad two wings for a while!!!. Old school choose not to wear the new ones, but they 'avebeen two winged brevets for at least 5 yrs.
BTW I agree wiff ya sentiment. Buit we all yawned last century!
Welcome to the new milenium.....
LJR (Ex Nav & Prowd of it!)
(spelling is somefink I do at work.)

AA,

Genuine question...

When SAS troopers gained their parachute wings, were they not simply doing the same course that a Para would have to complete? I was under the impression that the (sceptre?) wings were different only to distinguish the fact that the bearer was SAS.

I appreciate that P company is less challenging (although still bloody tough) than selection however, in order to gain your wings I thought you simply needed to get the required number of jumps under your belt.

Standing by to be corrected & then slotted! :eek:

Grow up!
 

Whizzwheel,

What do you think gives you the right to whinge about this....As far as you are concerned nothing has changed in the last 5 years..The real people who are pissed off here are the older Navigators who have had their Brevet stolen from them by a Pilot making a decision that nobody likes. Remember lad, the Air Farce is and always will be run by and on behalf of the 2 winged master race.....It seems that this latest decision is some lame attempt at trying to convince us that we can be part of it?

Don't dabble in genetics I say!

Double Wing
 

Bit of background info for those who care.

The idea for the change came from a NAVIGATOR, so don't blame us pilots...yes, it was approved by a pilot (CAF) however it was a bunch of civvies and a Navigator that came up with the idea. The concept was two fold. First to assist with recruiting as it was identified by potential recruits as something that may affect their decision to become a Navigator. The second justification was rather than continuing to create wings for all those "new" Officer Aircrew categories ie Airborne Fighter Controller etc and the fact they may end up the same cat anyway, why not give them the same brevet.

These decisions are usually made by someone who is in a minority but in a position of influence and have the drive to push the barrow. A couple of examples:
RAN FAA aircrew wings - in the seventies "someone" decided that it would be nice to have a set of "gold" metal wings to pin on summer rig (prior to this wings or decorations were not worn on summer working rig). Some ****** decided that these metal wings would essentially have "two" wings for all three specialties (pilot, observer, aircrewman) with minor differences to the centre motif to distinguish, at a very close up glance, who was who.
All were immediately up in arms - off the sleeve - obs lost their beloved "squashed" butterfly - the actual metal wings were and still are crap (commonly found in Kellog Corn Flake packets - my junior TAA wings were better) when compared to, say USN, RAAF, AAAC.
Related subject - Oz gets rid of Imperial decorations and introduces egalitarian system - thinking that troops would no longer feel that they belonged to an under class - wrong! - the diggers of all three services were justifiably proud of their DSM, MM, DFM because, unless they were originally lower deck, an officer could not be awarded them.
Might seem like a small point and normally might be except that the same wankers are not doing a good job of overall defence force management.
GAGS
E86

Double Wing
 

I certainly feel for the older Navigators out there who feel as though they are victims of a crime they didn't commit. Unfortunately that is life. My Uncle was a Navigator with 467 SQN in the WWII and wrote home about the older "Observers" who had been forced to take on Navigator wings (admittedly it was because they did Navigator training!!) however human nature (not the band you youngins!!!) is such that we all like to be part of our own team....why is that aircrew stick together yet put a bunch of Pilots and Navs in a room and you would think you are at a High School social....ie boys on one side girls on the other...(no other analogies please....will only get ugly!!!.....)

Dont worry dude

Just means you have to get closer before realising it's someone you dont want to talk to.

You didnt do pilots course just to get that second wing did you?

Does said nav-wing-extender have the initials JT?

Looks like the category name is about to change too - something like 'Airborne Mission Tactical Specialist Commander Astronaut'. I just feel sorry for the bloody hard working, bloody talented Navs who busted a gut to earn a brevet that was steeped in history and pride, now just generic NPA.

CS: No, just ranting!

I thought his initials were LT. If not LT certainly had a major part in the staff process and design (probably the same person)