I am so embarrassed to be a member of the forces travelling around the world. This whole system is amazingly over complicated as the civvies simply issue a daily rate. How hard is that?

I know the reasons for this new system are to save money but all it is doing is eating into crew rest time and time when home.

I might not have such a problem with it if i didn't see every politician claiming over 100,000 in expenses a year. Do they have these problems? i think not.

I understand the simplicity of rates and how good a deal that was in terms of organising your own existence on longer Dets. However, I also understand the reasons (Taxman driven) why we had to move to actuals. That makes perfect sense! However (again), CAPPED ACTUALS, ACCOUNTED FOR ON A DAILY BASIS, are just pure madness. Not only does it not work in terms of cost (London, Texas et al, try and find a decent, healthy meal 'in budget'!)), but the apparent effect it is having on morale must be percieved as counter-productive. Just do what all other organisations do and treat people like adults. It would soon be obvious who the piss-takers were and quite easy to deal with them. People who see this as an improved way of doing business either do not get out much or are just wind-up merchants. As said earlier, the civvies must be laughing their cotton socks off.

It is very interesting to see that you lite blue chaps are having all the same problems as us that normally inhabit the arrse. In our neck of the woods we cannot even decide what the Day in Day Subsistence means. Is it Monday, Tuesday etc etc or is it a 24hr period begining when you leave your cantoonment?

As for actuals some people really know how to use the system as a non rupert brown job has just been paid £20.45 for taking luncheon consisting of; 6 Oysters, a King Prawn and Scallop Grill and a cup of coffee! So the next time you are out for over 5 hours you should fly over to the Loch Fynne Oyster Bar.

Is there a minimum to what you can claim? I guess you could claim the £1.04 that a duty meal costs in the Mess when visiting another base on duty (you do get a receipt as well). I can't see why not as you are on detached duty from your home station but does the subsidised bit make a difference? Logging on permitting it doesn't take too long to raise a single line expense claim and would help claw back some of the money lost when away from unit. It would also send a message that two can play at that game. Only a thought...

MPs Allowances
 

I am sure that I read somewhere fairly recently that MPs can claim up to £250 a day without showing a receipt !!!!!! That is fair and just then - NOT.
Prescott and his mates can of course can be trusted. But no one else ??????
MPs I think claim up to 60p per mile for using their cars.
Mad, Im flipping hovering as I write.

'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

MP's allowances. You'll weep.

As for the Inland Robbery, and the supposed tax reasons for going onto actuals - I have it on good authority that HMRC Civil Servants claim rates!

As I said in the parallel thread I do not see what the oxygen theives in the treasury have got to do with any of this. The worlds airlines have continued with rates without a hitch. Before anyone points out that their allowances are taxable that is wrong as well . The food element is tax free. The worst bit as many have said is the capped bit. The civil servants are not capped and do not need a receipt for IE (used to be PIE) but I forget they have a union.

New Overseas (US) rates out from MOD:

NS in US Cities = $177
DS in US Cities = $69


Now, if B'fast is included in NS (Which I assume is Hotel B+B) then we are looking at a far more reasonable situation. i.e. $69 for Lunch and/or dinner + IE. Is not clear though! I maintain, that you would be hard pushed to spend that ($69) everyday but at least you can go for a 'nice' meal ocassionally. Furthermore, alcohol is allowed on DS (Formal MOD Policy) (at local commander's discretion). Could common sense actually be prevailing at last. Could we have turned a corner and are actually going to be treated as adults? ....... I hope so! Certainly looks slightly more promising. Whoever is responsible at Command, I respectively request ...... please leave it at that and do not put a local STC rule on the existing MOD policy! - it may just be the ticket to make a saving on some morale issues! Just take a look at this thread! :ok:

Regards

Testing

The $69 sounds like the $52 DS that was stated initially plus the IE (PIE as was) at £10 (roughly $17). Unless they have relaxed the IE rules and allow you to claim regardless (like the civvies) of the 3 specific item criteria in the JSP, it sounds as if it is a theoretical max.

The Pros?
 

It seems to me that the only pro of the new system is that we now work on a daily rate, as opposed to a meal rate dependant on exact duty times. At least this should cut out the ridiculous process of working out landing/TO times in order to make the Lunch rate.

The system sucks though. All that happens is that everyone spends all of their cash unecessarily now because of the feeling of being 'done out' of our rates and restauranteurs the world-wide will be putting signs up saying "No large parties/itemised bills" due to the massive faff post-dining.

I can only imagine what will happen the first time an AT asset diverts with a full pax load in the middle of deepest Africa?!? I'm sure the top brass are covered for their meetings though - so it must work, right??:\

Uncle G :ok:

Your not wrong. MPs get as much for their bycicle rate as we do for motor milage allowance. No wonder Cameron likes riding everywhere.

I thought that was Prescott...

I've checked and the $69 DOES NOT INCLUDE IE. Hurrah! Just waiting for some STC killjoy to bring in their own interpretation. The policy letter even alludes to IE as being an extra allowance. If this is all allowed to stand then things have just become acceptable (in my opinion). By the way, the figures bring us in line with FCO directives!

NEW RATES
 

So some progress at last. Do we still need the receipt for IE and why are the civil servants still not capped? Do we have a reference for these figures?

IE
 

As far as IE is concerned my understanding (from our clerk) is that it is for the 3 specified items in the JSP (laundry/call/paper) and not for anything else. However, anything under £5 does not have to be receipted, but if audited you have to attached the new form stating that you did spend it on the aforementioned items. You have to sign/date it which means if you didn't spend money on those items it is fraud. Proving it either way might be difficult, but is your pension worth it? Another stealth saving.

Here's a good one. Civil Servant (or contractor or whoever) goes on RAF course (to work some RAF equipment). Civil Servant (or etc) is not employed by RAF therefore he does not have JPA account (can you see what it is yet.....? - stay with me). So, if he was on a Civil Servant course, no problem, claim everything that moves. But he's on RAF buisness this time! Worms, Can, Opening for the use of.

Scapegoat;

So you self-certify £1-90 for your newspaper every day.(it costs more overseas)!!
So you self-certify £4-80 for your 3 min call on PayAsYouGo (£1-60 per min from Jandahar!!)
so you self-certify up to £3-30 for a small travel bottle of Doby Dust/Fluid which only covers your shreddies/socks/nicotine smelling t-shirt...travel (one-shot) bottles are quite pricey!!
Total ..nearly £10-00
Plus you will have to convert that to local dink for your RoPE form!!!

Then you go out and spend your DS on a nice meal with 1/2 bot wine (Brize) or softies (Lye)...

More LAter;
'J' Bloke!!

Green Flash.

As a CS I have been on many RAF courses. It makes no difference to us. Either we are authorised to go or we are not. Our claim will be the same.

'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

PhilR

Who auths (pays) your claim - CS or RAF? :confused:

I will back PR up on that one. I have been on many RAF courses, (to work on RAF equipment). Once we are authed we are on actuals. However, the bean counters in our accounts DO treat us as adults. We have to produce the receipts but an advance is given if asked for. Accom is paid for, as usual. A midday meal, (with drink), and an evening meal with alcohol. We fill in the claims form, deduct any advances and pay/get paid the difference.

We do get the usual queries from accounts but normally most things are acceptable, (unless you have really cocked up the figures).

I think the difference is we complete our own forms and a great deal is put on honesty and trust, (if that is a difference).

Green Flash.

The RAF charge the Facility for the course and are paid from the facility budget. In the 26 years I was in, the anti-fun squad was forever trying to demoralise personnel, particularly on the AT/AAR fleet. All I can say is that the crews I flew with always went out of their way to ensure that the ground crew were watered and fed, (some captains have delayed to give them time to recover. Sleep that is).

I take my hat off to any of you that I flew with on the Victors Fun bus:D